Volume Levels and DAW Production (Final Mix Phase)

[mrtunes]

I've had the model 12 for about a year now and I am having a lot of trouble getting my bearings on the volume levels right so I wanted to touch base here to see if anyone else had similar issues. In general, a lot of the music I am working on with Ableton is getting tracked too quietly, and then at the final stage I'm working too hard to bring levels up in mastering which I don't like doing.

This has something to do with the fact that when I'm monitoring, it is sounding like sufficient volume (i know this is vague and we don't have to go into that).

So there is the tracking phase and the mixing phase. Let's just stick with the mixing phase since it's easier to discuss just one item.

My Ableton master out goes to 11/12, and then on the model 12 i switch that channel to PC. I imagine you want to make sure that only the Main is selected so that when listening on headphones I don't hear the mix duplicated in the Sub as well.

Ideally I would be able to hear this Master mix from ableton in a way that bypasses the model 12 mixer completely, similar to what happens when I listen back on a simple focusrite interface. Does anyone have any tips on this part of the process?

 

[Mark Richards]

I am having a lot of trouble getting...volume levels right...tracked too quietly, and then at the final stage I'm working too hard to bring levels up in mastering...

If you haven't yet done so, you may need first to establish unity gain in the signal chain; then focus your attention on your gain staging throughput.

Specific 'How To' details can be found with a google search or ChatGPT (which actually does a pretty good job describing how to perform unity gain and gain staging in a recording studio setting).

But a search of this forum on 'unity gain', or this post in the 2488/DP-24/32/SD forum, may be enough to get you pointed in the right direction.

 

[-mjk-]

@mrtunes said:

a lot of the music I am working on with Ableton is getting tracked too quietly, and then at the final stage I'm working too hard to bring levels up in mastering which I don't like doing.

So there is the tracking phase and the mixing phase. Let's just stick with the mixing phase since it's easier to discuss just one item.

No. The problem is in the tracking phase so that is where we must center the discussion. To talk about mixing poorly recorded tracks would be irresponsible and a disservice to you.

Understandably people tend to emphasize mixing because it's fun and the coolest part of the process. But in reality, the single most important part of the process is tracking. If the tracks are garbage then one cannot possibly expect any outcome other than garbage. The old saying about polishing a turd really does apply in this context. If you've ever had the pleasure of mixing some big-time artist's tracks, you'll find that for the most part you can do a "yardstick mix" meaning that you push all the faders to Zero and the mix is practically there. This is because they were meticulously tracked.

As @Mark Richards said, it's all about gain staging. The first and only thing to concentrate on is tracking. If you know you aren't tracking properly, stop doing it and fix it. You cannot go onto the next stage unless the first stage is correct.

You will have to rely on some kind of metering, and most likely a track meter or plugin meter in your DAW to make sure you are hitting proper levels for tracking. Do whatever it takes and work to get it right.

When I get tracks sent to me for mixing, there are several things I do to process them and one of those things is to normalize them to proper levels for mixing. There is nothing wrong with doing that in the DAW if you need to. Just bear in mind that normalizing is not the ideal solution to the problem. Even in the digital domain, the signal-to-noise ratio matters. It would be preferrable to send the signal to the DAW at the proper level for tracking.

Once you solve your tracking problems you will find that everything else will pretty much fall into place because you are not compensating for poor tracks - you will be mixing and mastering good tracks. Make tracking your kung-fu and you will master the art.

 

[BazzBass]

this is where I'm at, I can track my bands quite well, with each session I got better, to the point that each instrument is at a good level and doesn't need boosting or additional gain.
Now, what's this mixing caper all about?

 

[shredd]

As @@Mark Richards said, it's all about gain staging. The first and only thing to concentrate on is tracking. If you know you aren't tracking properly, stop doing it and fix it. You cannot go onto the next stage unless the first stage is correct.

That's it. In a nutshell.
Another good analogy is "lipstick on a pig", which Americans are very familiar with.
You can make a crapey mix from good tracks...but you cannot make a good mix from crapey tracks.

 

[mrtunes]

If you haven't yet done so, you may need first to establish unity gain in the signal chain; then focus your attention on your gain staging throughput.

Specific 'How To' details can be found with a google search or ChatGPT (which actually does a pretty good job describing how to perform unity gain and gain staging in a recording studio setting).

But a search of this forum on 'unity gain', or this post in the 2488/DP-24/32/SD forum, may be enough to get you pointed in the right direction.

All good info from the replies here. I will say that this post helped me because it made me realize that ableton has the test tone feature. When i used that at 0db, I realized that I had my headphone volume cranked a bit higher than ideal. I was also able to recognize what the meters should look like on the Tascam when tracking in a signal. So for now this has helped sort out a lot of the issues.

I think it would be handy for future versions of these systems to have a 0db test tone built right in.

 

[shredd]

@mrtunes : I realize all gear is different - and I'm not at all familiar with the Tascam Modelxx's - but it's noteworthy that almost all mixers have a "PFL" function to help you with gain-staging. It's worth looking into (there will surely be plenty of info on it in your O/M, in the stickies here on the forum, and online/y-tubes galore).