IF-SM/DM card allows only stereo out in 5.1 mode

[cmaffia]

OK installed the IF-SM/DM card last night. Need to set up some test speakers this weekend and dive into this. Be prepared for many many silly questions from me . First question is how are you rendering your mix? The card appears to only monitor. From my initial investigation, it looks like my Cubase would render the mix.

 

[cmaffia]

Nearly there with doing surround sound without the IF-SM/DM using the analog outs on the analog expansion card. As I thought, Cubase and Nuendo handle all the control the IF-SM/DM menus do and more in Cubase's Control Room. Once I'm 100% confident I will do a low tech video and document how I did it.

 

[ncpstudio]

Hi cmaffia,
My apologies for this delayed reply. I wasn't available the past days, however I'd left a forumpage open along with the other open pages in the browser.
I'll back to you later

 

[ncpstudio]

Ok.....refering to your first post;
Yes the card is a monitoringcard only (afaik)

Now for rendering, there are several ways that can think of now:
1) Render in the box when do all audio mix within Cubase and use the console as a fader
controller and a monitor interface.
2) Mix back to the DAW. Individual tracks out to console mix final surroundsound (5.1 or
other) back to Cubase.
3) Mix to external multitrack recorder (ADAT, DA-88, HD24 or somethingelse)

Now going out of the console, you have the following interfaces standard on the console:
I) ADAT optical (8ch) standard on the console
II) TDIF (8 ch) x 3
III) the 8 assignable analog sends
Optional:
VI) IF-AE/DM 8ch AES/EBU expansioncard
V) IF-FW/DMmkII Firewire card
All of these are available to you when considering to go physically out of the mixer while monitoring thru the card. Requires a small configuration job though.

Expl:
Before I had the surround monitoring card, I did a setup with the assignable analog outs as monitoring and the ADAT out to the DAW. Can't remember if the ADAT signals were a copy of what was going to the Assignable outs or if it was the other way around.
Bottomline is that I had the same signal on both.

 

[ncpstudio]

Now refering to your second post;
Yes Nuendo & Cubase have a full blown controlroom section.
If you're gonna use that, you'll be mixing in the box and the console will be just for monitoring........well......you can route other sources to inputs of the DAW.
In this case you'll setup 6 ch's in the mixer as input stage (faders to a unity gain).
Next route through busses to analog card.
Because of the motorized faders you can't place a cap over the 6 faders or tie a pencil to them for control the 6 ch audio (creating a big volume knob) like some people have done on analog boards.
Remember the slightes move of one of these faders will give you a misjudged image of your mix. Well let's say if you didn't notice that one or more fader positions has been changed and you're mixing on that, the results won't be what you've wanted. (weird image)

 

[cmaffia]

@ncpstudio Thanks. Yes I always mix in the box. I'm not clear about what you're saying about 6-channel volume control. The Cubase control room has its own master volume for all 6 channels rather than using Cubase's master fader. I believe this is equal to the Pod 4 master volume control that is accessible in one of the IF-SM/DM menus.

I'm also not using the Buss assignments to route signal to the analog card. I simply route each of the 6 firewire channels directly to the analog card using the Output Slot menu. These correspond to the VST Connection Outputs I set up in Cubase. From the Cubase mixer, I output tracks to any of the 6 channels including a 5.1 output which allows me to position the signal anywhere in the surround field. In the VST connections you are able to set up a child stereo output. Anything routed out to this output will be assigned automatically to Left and Right and is specifically used for stereo music files.

Once I have everything connected 100% I will do a step by step tutorial on how I configured everything. I still need to connect most of my speakers before everything is operational. I know see how the IF-SM/DM card is more for those who mix out of the box. I don't think I will ever use the card so if anyone wants to buy mine let me know.

I still have a ton to learn as far as mixing in this format but I believe I have the hardware and software configured correctly. I've also learned of a way to perform speaker calibration using pink noise and a SPL meter.

I will keep you posted on my endeavor and please feel free to poke holes in anything written above. I'm not claiming to be an expert with any of this and hope to learn from those who are.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[ncpstudio]

Hey Charlie,
Greetings.
Yes what I meant was that if you would mix individual tracks from your DAW on the DM board, you would have to monitor the mix through 6 analog outs to your speaker system, but you would also have to record that mix (6 ch) back to your DAW. To do this there are options for ADAT optical, TDIF, AES/EBU or analog.
But as you said, you're always mixing in the box, so this doesn't apply to you.
However in your case you'll still have to go through the board for monitoring the 6 outs.
Well........I don't know how you enter the board from the DAW, but let's say through ADAT optical, then you can route the ADAT in to either the analog card or the 8 assignable analog outs on the back of the board (on the right). Do this with input bypass.
Using your analog card go:
1 alt/routing--output slot
2 terminal select--for expl: slot 4
3 source select...turn POD4 to ADAT (under INPUT BYPASS)
4 go to output select on the left of the same window and select 1 then dial on the jog/shuttle knob to ADAT Trk 1 and then press enter.
Do the same for 2 - 6, so you'll have at 2 -ADAT Trk 2, at 3 -ADAT Trk 3 and so on.
Configuring the console like this will bypass the ADAT input to the analog card. Now you can use your monitoring/controlroom section in Cubase. The big red knob in Cubase to control the 6 ch to the 6 speakers.

If you want to see on the meters what's coming in, I would suggest you go:
1 alt/routing--input slot
2 select ch 49-64 under layer select
3 under source select go to ADAT
4 under ROUTING, dial ADAT-1 for INP ch 57, ADAT-2 for INP ch 58, ADAT-3 for INP ch 59, ADAT-4 for INP ch 60, ADAT-5 for INP ch 61, ADAT-6 for INP ch 62.
This will show you the activities from the ADAT input coming in on ch 57 - 62 in sequence L, R, C, Lfe, Ls & Rs.

 

[cmaffia]

Hi. I am entering the DAW by routing my 6 channels through firewire. I will document my setup as an alternate configuration to do Surround Mixing.

 

[ncpstudio]

If you want to use the 8 assignable outs go:
1 alt/routing--output
2 terminal select--ASN SEND
3 source select...turn POD4 to ADAT (under INPUT BYPASS)
4 go to output select on the left of the same window and select 1 then dial on the jog/shuttle knob to ADAT Trk 1 and then press enter.
Do the same for 2 - 6, so you'll have at 2 -ADAT Trk 2, at 3 -ADAT Trk 3 and so on.
Configuring the console like this will bypass the ADAT input to the assignable analog outs on the back of the console.

 

[cmaffia]

Hello. I am not sure what the explanation above would accomplish for me. I am mixing in the box. The 6 channels are coming from Cubase to the DM through the firewire card. The 6 channels are routed directly to my analog card which outputs to the 6 speakers. I am monitoring the mix through Cubase Control monitor.

 

[ncpstudio]

Yes I got it that wouldn't use the Surround monitoring card, but you'll need to go out of the console to you Speakers right?
And I thought you wrote that you would use the analog expansion card (IF-AN/DM).
If not, no problem, I've included "the how to" for using the standard assignable analog sends on the back of the console.
Btw you can do the same bypasing of the FW tracks to the standard assignable analog sends or to the analog expansion card (IF-AN/DM).
The advantage is that it costs you less and you can do volume control from your Cubase controlroom section.

 

[ncpstudio]

My apologies for replying part by part, I thought that extended replies may bother some.

Ah..........I now see I'd missed the last part in one of your replies. I was addressing the first part.......hehehehe.

I guess for this phase your good.
Let me know your progress on the speakers setup and alligning.

 

[cmaffia]

Thank you. Your method and mine should be documented so that users have a choice. Much appreciated. Like I said, when I have the time I will do a step by step documentation of my configuration.

 

[ncpstudio]

Ok good my man. Blessings

 

[cmaffia]

Connected all the speakers to analog card, set up Cubase Control room, calibrated speakers and success! Houston we have 5.1!

 

[ncpstudio]

Hey Charlie,
Great my man.
Have you already listened to some 5.1 productions through your system?
Some reverence material could help to familiarize yourself with the behaviour of surround sound in your room.

 

[cmaffia]

Yes thanks for asking. This past week I set up a project template so that an old Pioneer DVD player with 5.1 outputs can play through one of the consoles. I'm enjoying the setup but it's a lot more equipment for what the studio was designed for! I need a bigger boat!!