Mackie control strange behaviour on tascam dm-4800 and cubase

[cmaffia]

I'm throwing in the towel. My system drivers are up to date although I know this has to be a motherboard USB chipset issue causing this problem. Loading up TMC first is going to be in my future for the next several years.

 

[jamsire]

Can you elaborate on this? MIDI out of DM or the IFFW card? Then into a separate MIDI interface I presume. Does this cure the Timecode lockup of of the MU-1000 on looping? Enabling check box for MIDI Timecode follows Project Time only seems to work a short time, then always lockups.

I don't have a Meter Bridge so I can't help you there.

 

[cmaffia]

OK. What is it that is conflicting with the DM3200? Here's what I can duplicate with success:

While the workstation and DM3200 are both powered on:

1. Go to the MIDI setup on the DM3200 and disable the INT MTC MIDI connection.
2. Plug the DM3200 USB connection to ANOTHER USB port

Result: The remote layer works correctly without having to launch/close TMC first before opening DAW. I can even reboot the PC multiple times and it still works as it should.

HOWEVER

If I reboot the DM3200 after the above procedure, the problem returns.
I can play musical chairs all day with the USB ports and fix the problem but once I reboot the DM3200, game over! (enabling and disabling MTC INT has no effect at this point)

Let me describe again the symptom when the TMC app isn't launched/closed first before launching DAW. This problem only happens on the initial launch of the DAW application and returns only when the PC is rebooted.

1. Launch DAW (Cubase in this example).
2. During Cubase launch, you can see MIDI/Remote Layer initialize and there is fader movement.
3. Open any project.
4. Push play/stop on the DM3200 transport or ANY button on the DM3200, faders, pan knobs, track select and it works as it should.
5. About 10 seconds after launching the Cubase project, there is no longer communication between the DM3200 and Cubase in the remote layer. My CC121 however does! (and yes I've uninstalled that completely as well, no change).
6. Wait about 30-40 seconds and the connection returns on it's own.
7. Close Cubase and repeat procedure and everything works as it should.
8. Reboot PC and the problem returns again only on the initial launch of Cubase.

To me it seems that the initial launch/close of Cubase OR TMC does the same exact thing to my Windows 7 64bit environment. It seems to "wake up" or clear the path of communication to the DM3200 USB connection when the PC is first booted.

Here is Redbus' email response way back when regarding the issue and why TMC corrects the problem.

When TMC starts, it opens then closes every MIDI port in the system
to find one that gives a reply "DM-3200 here!", so that aspect of it
"waking up" something sounds reasonable.
Also, TMC relies heavily on SysEx MIDI messages, which haven't always
been treated as first class citizens in Microsoft's OSes, therefore
can trigger bugs in other USB MIDI drivers. (DM-3200 uses the OS's
built in driver which works, but is slow).

I've uninstalled all USB devices except the bare essentials (mouse, keyboard, DM3200) with no results. I thought it might be because the firewire card in my PC amd the USB controller were sharing the same IRQ but I moved the firewire card twice so they were separate but that isn't the conflict either. I even tried adding a PCI USB card but that didn't fix the problem either. Again, I plug in all of the same equipment into my old XP box (that I built myself) and everyone loves each other.

I firmly believe the issue lies OUTSIDE of the DAW application because of 2 reasons:

1. Launching/closing TMC BEFORE loading the DAW always corrects the problem.
2. The DM3200 USB connection shows disconnected in the device manager in 1 out of 5 reboots before I launch anything. I have to either reboot or in device manager disable/enable the DM3200 to get it to connect. It seems to be something with the way the DM3200 USB is communicating with the OS via the Generic Audio Device driver?? No other USB device has an issue. (yes Sweetwater disabled onboard audio card as they should have).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's my original post. Note that I thought initially it was Cubase causing the problem.

http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/remote-layer-stops-working-10-seconds-into-project-load.838/

That totals 6 of us in this forum alone, Elio being the most recent, confirming they have this ever lingering issue.

Elio
Cmaffia
CaptDan
Domino
Buchton
Goodflow

In the grand scheme of things, this is just a minor annoyance and there is a workaround. However, I'd still like to figure out why this is happening.

Hmmm...MSCONFIG.....

 

[Elio]

Dear all, the idea of launching the TMC software before Cubase works, however I had to follow the following steps:

1)Boot up the win 7 64 bit desktop
2)Turn on DM4800
3)launch tmc companion
4)launch cubase

If I turn on the dm4800 as first device, and then I boot up my desktop, the tmc companion software doesn't find the mixer, despite in Cubase, the dm4800 will be recognized but it will have the 48 times pressing button issue.

So it is like the usb drivers are not completely recognized, you have to turn on the dm4800 after the windows launch. Hope it helps, thanks to all for the suggestions!

 

[cmaffia]

It should work either way but could differ depending on your other gear. Glad you have it working. Still looking for cause myself.

 

[cmaffia]

I'm wondering if the common denominator is that those of us that are having problems are using Windows 7 64-bit. Tascman just confirmed he doesn't have this problem but he's using Windows 32-bit. what about the rest of you that have this problem and don't have this problem. what version of Windows 7 are you using?

 

[Arjan P]

I'm on Win7-64, and I couldn't tell if I have 'the' problem (seems to me different problems are described here). I always start TMC first because I keep the meter window in view.

 

[jamsire]

Win7 64bit. No problems.

 

[cmaffia]

Well then it has to be the crappy Sweetwater customized OS build. Looks like the only way I'm going to resolve this is if I reinstall and Tweak OS my way which I'm not going to do thanks everyone

 

[captdan]

Hey Charlie.....I tried to run those commands you listed earlier. At step #3 (windows\system...etc .etc), I get this response: 'not an internal or external command..."

So that's as far as I got. Sorry. Any advice, I'll try to follow up.

CaptDan

 

[AudioWave]

Well then it has to be the crappy Sweetwater customized OS build. Looks like the only way I'm going to resolve this is if I reinstall and Tweak OS my way which I'm not going to do thanks everyone

Assuming that you have a W7 x64 install DVD, a further trouble-shooting step that is common practice is to install W7 on separate testing HD or partition, boot off of it, install any MS updates that you need and then install DM & TMC software and tweak the OS as see you fit. Then your working and testing on a fresh OS install and you don't pollute or hork your current working OS.

 

[cmaffia]

Assuming that you have a W7 x64 install DVD, a further trouble-shooting step that is common practice is to install W7 on separate testing HD or partition, boot off of it, install any MS updates that you need and then install DM & TMC software and tweak the OS as see you fit. Then your working and testing on a fresh OS install and you don't pollute or hork your current working OS.

Yep I know. My full-time job is IT based and I've been doing this for over 20 years now. I could do further testing however the work associated with a full rebuild has such little return especially when the issue can be circumvented by launching the TMC application first to wake up the USB ports. I'm done with trying to fix this. Fortunately, even with the few hardware quirks this workstation has, it's quite stable and performs well so not all is lost. As to what's causing the problem, there's no other explanation other than Sweetwater's OS build and the motherboard chosen sucks ass! I'm just going to have to live with this machine for the next 3 years before I replace it. Never again Sweetwater, never again! What pisses me off more is on the Sweetwater site, you can write a review of ANY product they sell EXCEPT for their Creation Station computers!

 

[cmaffia]

UPDATE: I spoke to Rain Computer's former VP of Technology last night and we confirmed the USB problem I am experiencing is being caused by a flawed chipset used in Intel's last motherboard (dh67bl). Apparently Intel is no longer producing motherboards and this was the last one they produced (in which masses of them were recalled! Thanks Shitwater!!) We worked out a plan to swap out the board with a recommended model and he will do the standard "Rain" OS tweaks for me remotely. I will ask again which specific chipset within my board is causing the problem. Perhaps this chipset is what's causing the issue for others.

 

[jamsire]

Geez, I'd like to talk to that guy as well! Oh well. My machine is ok I guess. But would have loved to have gotten a new one from them. PCAudio Labs - here I come!!

 

[cmaffia]

Technically you still can Ernie! He designed all the Rain computers! He still does custom builds out of New Jersey so they basically are Rain computers! I will send you his contact info tonight.

Here's the flawed chipset:

Intel® 6 Series (and the Intel® C200 Series Chipset).

 

[cmaffia]

After 1 year and 7 months of purchasing this workstation from Sweetwater, I am pleased to say that after pleading my case once again, they agreed to send me a new revision of their Creation Station CS400v3 which uses an Asus motherboard.
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H87PLUS/

 

[captdan]

Bravo! Keep us posted when you get that bad boy hooked up.

CaptDan

 

[cmaffia]

Entirely brand new computer out if box with an Asus motherboard, win 7 64 bit home premium...only thing installed is dm3200 drivers, IF drivers and cubase ....same problem. Connect to XP Asus system....works fine. Give up. This appears to be a Tascam issue now if I were to pursue and I'm not as I've literally wasted thousands of hours on this

 

[jamsire]

Guess it's time for me to do a video.

 

[Arjan P]

This appears to be a Tascam issue now if I were to pursue and I'm not as I've literally wasted thousands of hours on this

Just forget about it, start TMC before the DAW and enjoy your new computer!