New Tascam Model 24: Reactions?

[Matt B]

Indications are that the Model 24 is a live mixing machine with some recording capabilities. My question - when will the the machine become just a box - where we can add the capabilities we want to have?

Imagine this delicious control surface, the recording software you want, the plug-ins you want, without the separate computer and all of the connectivity, portability, space and latency issues that come along.

Maybe a minority interest in the modern world, but I would love that.

 

[Scott Tribbey]

I think that won't happen. Flexibility is rather costly to design into a product and the market for complete portable studios is apparently getting smaller and smaller. If the latest, VERY similar, Zoom and Tascam live multitrack boxes like this are any indication, the standalone studio-in-a-box may have seen it's day. :-(

 

[Stew71]

This does look great, but lacking in MIDI capability (it's the main reason I have a mark 1 DP24) although I guess it will sync via USB.

Personally I fall into the 'track with hardware, mix with software' camp so not worried about the apparent lack of track editing functions.

Also - surprised not to see a solo button. There's a mute per channel, perhaps it's a combo to solo?

 

[cmaffia]

It’s like they took the basics of the Portastudio and the DM consoles series and melded them into one machine. Once you hook up to a DAW you’ll have all the amenities of that world (plugins, VST instruments, MIDI and everything else that’s been out of reach for the all in one units). Record and mix old school through your DAW just like we do with the DM24/DM3200/4800 consoles. Think of the DAW as your external tape machine...route your DAW channels with all their plugins though the mixer, use the mixer’s internal effects along with your external effects for your 2 channel mixdown back to the DAW or a 2 channel recorder like the DA3000 or to mastering software like Wavelab. Not sure but I’m wondering if your mixdown from the DAW could be routed to record to the SD card? Regardless, it’s the best of both worlds! Plus you have the Bluetooth app capabilities. Very cool for the asking price and a much better product than what they’ve been releasing in the last few years. Very cool.

 

[SocProf]

I was reading the Zoom LiveTrak L-20 manual. I noticed that it had directions for manual punch in (via buttons or foot switch) but no auto punch in. I emailed customer service, who confirmed that this feature is missing.

Given how often I rely on auto punch in during recording, this is a deal breaker for me. And it's a big disappointment since it shows that Zoom is not really serious about the home recording market.

I hope Tascam does better with the Model 24.

 

[psymatix]

I just don't understand why there is no MIDI !

 

[cmaffia]

Why would you need MIDI on this console if you weren't intending to use it with a computer? If you are, then purchase a $10 USB MIDI dongle and your DAW will have full MIDI capabilities. This new console is basically a watered down DM Series with Portastudio recording functionality. For $999 that's pretty darn cool. With today's power, stability and affordability of computers and the user friendliness of DAW software, I don't understand why anyone would want to limit themselves with an archaic all-in-one recording device.

 

[cmaffia]

What I am explaining is that if you use the Console 24 as a front end to a DAW, then you don't need a MIDI interface on the console itself. It would only add unnecessary cost to the unit. You can get a USB MIDI dongle or a more accommodating MIDI/PC interface depending on your needs. I think comparing this mixer to a Portastudio is a mistake as its more a watered down DM series console.

 

[Caveman]

I just started reading manual but so far I like what I see. It'd work well with my setup.

 

[-mjk-]

Why would you need MIDI on this console if you weren't intending to use it with a computer? If you are, then purchase a $10 USB MIDI dongle and your DAW will have full MIDI capabilities. This new console is basically a watered down DM Series with Portastudio recording functionality. For $999 that's pretty darn cool. With today's power, stability and affordability of computers and the user friendliness of DAW software, I don't understand why anyone would want to limit themselves with an archaic all-in-one recording device.

I completely get what you mean. You make good points and I agree with you. However, there are reasons why I refuse to go that route.

Frankly, the main reason is because I'm an old fart that doesn't trust DAW software on a PC, lol. I've used real Pultecs, LA-2s, a closet of U-67s, and a beautiful API console with the side car monitor desk. I cannot mix with a mouse and keyboard - I need knobs and faders. Layers irritate me too.

I produced a few sessions with a Thai band in Taipei, and the studio used Cubebase. I have never felt so disconnected in my life. There was no console whatsoever. It was one of the most frustrating.... No it was THE most frustrating studio experience I've ever had. Every single little thing I needed the engineer to do took significantly longer to do, because he used a mouse, and the moves were so imprecise it was actual pitiful. Normally, I engineer my own sessions, and not being able to just reach for the knob I wanted to turn was ridiculous. Language issues aside (neither the band or the engineer spoke English), it took hours to cut tracks that I could have done in Boston on the API and the Studer in minutes. Would have sounded better too.

That being said, if I would buy a control surface for a DAW, it would just irritate me. I'd rather have an API vision console. If I was going to do that, I'd Dante/MADI to a multitrack digital machine. I have a Soundcraft Ghost at my disposal, gathering dust because I don't want to use it with a DAW. I also don't want to spend the effort interfacing the Ghost with a digital recorder, because that gets me no advantages, really, over tracking with the DP-32. I cannot beat the ease of use and sheer speed of laying tracks on the DP-32.

I can get tracks on the DP-32 that rival anything I did back in the US when I was producing. But, I have no intention of mixing anything on the DP-32. I'm going to get my tunes mixed in a real mixing room on a proper desk with actual effects and not digital recreations of them.

So, I'm only cutting tracks and not mixing, or mastering. The DP-32 is very fast, clean and reliable, even more than those 2" tape machines. It's perfect for what I'm doing.

Thanks.

 

[cmaffia]

Understood, but also note that like the DM series consoles, the Model 24 can route your DAW tracks to the mixer which allows you to mix old school analog through the board. In this way the DAW is basically a tape machine with the added bonus of using DAW plugin effects (if you choose) along with your external gear when mixing. Since you prefer not mixing yourself, a traditional Portastudio for tracking is the cleanest and cheapest way for your needs. Personally speaking, this latest offering by Tascam is bringing together the best of the Portastudio, DM Series AND their classic analog mixer models into one solid unit. Incidentally, the converters on this are much better sounding than the DM Series which should not be a surprise considering the DM is over a decade old. To my ears they are using the same or similar converters as their 2 channel DA-3000 converter which sounds incredible.

 

[cmaffia]

SW demo notes:

We routed the microphones straight into the console, and recorded directly onto the internal SD card. No external hardware was used during the tracking stage. I did use some compression on the kick, snare, and bass guitar during the tracking session. I never compress very hard during tracking, so I found that the onboard, one-knob compressor on each channel was simple, elegant, and worked very well for just a touch of dynamic control. A little bit more compression was added using plug-ins during mixdown, but all the mixdown EQ came from the console channel strips. The reverb was all the internal console reverb.

 

[-mjk-]

cmaffia, thanks! Good points. Thank you for taking time to respond.

 

[SocProf]

To my ears they are using the same or similar converters as their 2 channel DA-3000 converter which sounds incredible.

The quality of the converters is my problem with the current DP series. I recently programmed a really nice overdriven Marshall Plexi sound on my Zoom G5n. I used it on a rhythm guitar track, which sounded great as I monitored the recording on headphones with my DP24SD. Then I played back the track...and the life had been sucked out of the sound. That's when it hit me that the DP24SD didn't have the recording quality that my persnickety audiophile ears demand.

 

[-mjk-]

There is no point in using those hot new converters at 48kHz, is there?

 

[-mjk-]

SocProf, you can import tracks if you prefer.

 

[Phil Tipping]

... sounded great as I monitored the recording on headphones with my DP24SD. Then I played back the track...and the life had been sucked out of the sound...

I'm curious why there would be a difference between monitoring and record/playback. The input signal passes through the same analogue circuitry and the same A-D & D-A convertors to get to the headphones when monitoring. When recording, the digital signal is just routed via a file on the SD-card. If the machine is set to the same bit rate & sampling frequency for both cases, and no FX are in the recording/playback path, what would cause the difference?

 

[cmaffia]

There is no point in using those hot new converters at 48kHz, is there?

The answer is a resounding "YES" and there's plenty of debate about sampling rates in the forum if you do a search. Not to mention units made by other manufacturers that cost 3 times the amount of the Console 24 are only offering 44.1 / 44.8 kHz.

 

[SocProf]

I'm curious why there would be a difference between monitoring and record/playback. The input signal passes through the same analogue circuitry and the same A-D & D-A convertors to get to the headphones when monitoring. When recording, the digital signal is just routed via a file on the SD-card. If the machine is set to the same bit rate & sampling frequency for both cases, and no FX are in the recording/playback path, what would cause the difference?

Phil, are you sure that is the monitor routing? I definitely heard a difference in sound quality between monitoring and playback, and I was surprised at how substantial it was.

Given how poorly written Tascam's manuals are and that their website has typos, I wonder if the published schematic is less than fully accurate. Or maybe I just have a faulty unit.

 

[-mjk-]

cmaffia, oh, I need to stay away from those debates then! That is a very interesting point you made about the other manufacturers offering higher priced options with the same resolution as the Portastudio. But, Tascam products have always been a good value.

I need to get ahold of the service manual and see if there are any chip upgrades that could be made.