Alternative for Motu 2408 / extra I/O

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snafu

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Tascam DM 3200 + IF-FW_DMMK II
Hi everyone,

thought I'm through with this topic - seems I'm not^^ Sorry for starting another thread on this - had lately one asking 'bout patchbay/DM3200 inserts, and way before that I was yelling for more analog I/Os. Could not decide on which thread to pull up again (unsure if someone would still read it after that time), so I decided to start this one. Sorry for that.

So, I was recommended a motu 2408 mk3 for that extra analog I/Os. Unfortunately there are not many on ePay (at least in germany - got just one hit), and the only deal I found so far, well, seemed a bit, hm, odd to me...

I see it (2408 mk3) has TDIF connectors on the backside of the rack (labeled Tascam A to C). I was told, I would use a divice with these, since I wanted to make use of the DM3200's TDIF connectors.

I checked with some (not all!) of the new motus but couldn't find one with the specifications I'd like to have:
- at least 8 analog I/Os
- DM3200's TDIFs should be involved
[yep, my 2nd card slot has the IF-AN/DM card - I'm looking for a plus]

Any other options than the 2408 mk III?

As always I appreciate your help!

cheers,
Thorsten
 
They don't make the 2408 anymore, but that's the one you want. It needs a PCIe card to talk directly to your computer, but it would stand alone if you're just using it for ins and outs via TDIF to you DM. Some of the older TASCAM interfaces had TDIF, of course, but I can't find a new unit with that port.
 
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You need something like the RME ADI/ADI Pro. Stand alone 8-channel converter. ADAT or TDIF to Analog and Analog back to ADAT or TDIF. About $600 used for the original, maybe a bit more for MKI version, about $2k for new MKII version.
 
Yeah. For 8 extra channels of analog, you definitely need a convertor that cost more than your console.
 
The man asked for an option, an option was provided...
 
@GravityJim: the motu is still on my list - as I said before: unfortunately they're hard to come by^^ Should I find one, I'll definitively go for it! Saw some on ebay.com from the US - but obviously without any shipping options.

@AudioWave: I found this piece of gear. Aint exactly what you proposed I guess, but it has AES/EBU (TDIF?) connectors on the backside. This something I could make use of?
The RME seems to deliver what I need. The price (here: 1500€) would be OK, but it'll take a while until I can afford it. Every coin I earn I spent currently for the building alteration on the rooms. But I'll keep an eye on that device (oh - I didn't check ebay on that one yet!).

Any other options welcome! Oh - I forgot: I got a budget for that particular device - up to 800 € would be OK, 1500 € would be a bit close to the bone...
 
addendum: OK, the inet has it's niches, so - maybe there's a chance to get my hands on the motu. Found something, but the vendor says there's no PCIe-card included. Do I need a PCIe-card? I only want to hook it up to my Dm3200's TDIF ports - basta!
 
@@AudioWave: I found this piece of gear. Aint exactly what you proposed I guess, but it has AES/EBU (TDIF?) connectors on the backside. This something I could make use of?
The RME seems to deliver what I need. The price (here: 1500€) would be OK, but it'll take a while until I can afford it. Every coin I earn I spent currently for the building alteration on the rooms. But I'll keep an eye on that device (oh - I didn't check ebay on that one yet!).
Click to expand...

I'm not sure which RME product you refer to, but if it is the RME AD-192, that is a digital audio format & sample rate converter to go from one digital audio format to another, but not meant as a analog to digital or digital to analog converter.

The RME product I mention, the ADI or ADI-Pro, is a multi-format analog to digital and digital to analog converter. It is meant for any one digital format to be used at the same time. You can find and download the appropriate manual to learn more.

Before RME was RME, they made the same product and a few of their PCI interfaces unders the Steinberg Nuendo brand name. I believe it was called Nuendo 8 I/O. If you can find one of those, they would likely be much cheaper.

While a new RME ADI-Pro MKII unit does have a premium price, it also has much better conversion quality that what the DM mixer has.

Since TDIF is not longer a popular used format for many years now, (ADAT kicked it's ass) finding stand alone Analog to TDIF converters will likely be on the used market and take some effort to find.

Apogee & Mytek also made converters back in the day with TDIF

Tascam also used to make 8-Channel analog to digital and digital to analog converters, the MA-AD8 & IF-DA8 which if you could find would likely be quite cheap these days.
 
snafu, Note that the RME ADI 8 DS MKIII you refer to has no TDIF, it is analog to digital and digital to analog converter for ADAT or multi-channel AES but could used for basically the same thing as the RME ADI/ADI Pro.
 
I could be mistaken but I think he will need the PCIe card. The standalone function only serves as either an AD or a DA. Not both. If he goes out of the DM via TDIF (digital) and the MOTU converts the signal to analog, i.e DA, he still needs to get the signal into his PC somehow. The PCIe card allows you to receive the digital signal from the DM via TDIF > keep it in the digital domain and then port it over to his PC via "Audiowire" protocol for recording etc. I have my system up and running completely at the moment with no issues using a PCI card with a 2408mk2 and a 1224 for additional analog I/O as well as an 828mk2 hanging off the ADAT outs of the DM for extra sends to my outboard. Hope this helps you Snafu.
 
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I don't believe he needs the PCIe card. A friend of mine uses A/D and D/A with his DM3200 and does not have the PCIe card.
 
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Here is the illustration I scanned from the MOTU 2408mk2 manual showing how to connect and properly clock the MOTU for anyone who is interested.

MOTU TDIF sync from manual.jpg


@cmaffia

Depends on what he is doing. If he is only using it for additional analog I/O then no. If he is trying to get the analog back into his PC then yes. Again I could be mistaken but everything I've read indicates this and I have it working on my system. I think the OP needs to tell us more about what he is trying to do exactly.
 
Why wouldn't you route all signals via the DM3200? why would you need to have a direct connection to PC to record audio from the MOTU?
 
[EDIT] Rewording this so it makes better sense...


The OP said he wanted "Extra" I/O. If he uses the MOTU via TDIF and then routes it back to his DM he will need to use some of the I/O he already has assigned to get the signal back into his PC hence the need for the PCI card. The PCI card provides the additional means to get the signal back into the PC without using his already assigned (I assume this based on the word "extra" I/O in the heading) FW ports.
 
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He wants more analog ins. The 2408 will do that just fine without the PCIe cards. If he wants more digital I/O than the FireWire card provides, that's different... he would need the PCIe card and the whole "aggregate device" thing. But he just wants to plug more stuff into the console, no card required.
 
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Gravity Jim is correct. Same as I stated in Post# 14:


Depends on what he is doing. If he is only using it for additional analog I/O then no. If he is trying to get the analog back into his PC then yes.
Click to expand...
 
OK, I must clarify things here: first off, you see I am new to the matter, which is because for the time being the DM3200 is all I needed for working. But now I have the chance to renovate a room and make it a recording room. So I want my mikes, line-outs ect. in a steady mode - just to hit the record button and get things going. I can patch my entire recording room to the patchbay, but then, there is need for some more inputs and outputs.

That's where the confusion started! Regard my PC as sole recording device, meaning that everything needs somehow to be routed in or out to the PC at last.

Since this is not my first post on this topic, I understand I didn't get it right the first time: I thought, the TDIF on the backside of the DM would connect to the motu and therefor make the motu's 8 inputs and outputs accessable to the DM - which then would route the signals from the TDIFs to the PC. If this was true, no PCI card would be needed. I might be mistaken, but isn't there a source on the routing page of the DM labeled "TDIF"? OK, again: this made me belive, the TDIF-ports will provide signal connection. From what I read here, this is not the case, am I right?

So to clarify (I realy hope, I'm not complicating things with this):
I want to use the the 16 inputs my DM3200 provides plus 8 more inputs and outputs (via IF-AN/DM card) plus 8 more inputs and outputs I can access somehow with the TDIF. So in summary I would have:
- 16 inputs on the backside of my DM
- 8 inputs from the analog card
- 8 outputs from the analog card
plus
- 8 inputs plus 8 outputs from the motu (RME or whatever) device. The I/Os of the latter must somehow reach the digital domain, the PC. [as I wrote above: I thought this was established via the TDIFs on the back of the DM]

I was referring to the post of TascMan* in my older thread (here - 3rd post). Let me quote the passage in question:

3) Use the TDIFs. I think the TDIFs were put on this board with the idea that the user could utilize the MX2424, or other Tascam specific equipment. It does work well for that, but there is another piece of rack mount gear that works well for analog expansion that will convert to TDIF, and that's the MOTU 2408MK3. This piece of gear is getting long in the tooth, and there are probably better options out there, but I have been happy with mine, and it still keeps on ticking. You can find them on eBay and you don't need the PCI computer card interface to make them work. Basic settings can be done on the front panel. It will happily work via TDIF, although these days I believe I have it hooked up via ADAT. But check it out nonetheless. The 2408 provides 8 channels of analog, In and Out, and will convert those channels to digital to send into your DM via 24 channels of TDIF or ADAT. Works great!
Click to expand...

So for my setup: card or no card?

Thank you, everyone, for your help!

*P.S.: as I told you in post #1: the cycle started because I was looking for the 2408, couldn't find one, and was looking for an option. I do understand that TascMan's option is working, but this would require an 2408.
 
You are correct. No card required. Keep in mind that this will not increase the digital track count: your FW card will still run only 32 channels in and out of your PC. But you will have 8 more analog ins and outs, through the TDIF connection, that you can route in the DM to any of those 32 channels.
 
Plus you have 4 assignable sends and returns
 
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