Can i use a guitar pedal to record effects on dp 32?

[musicianvw]

I was wondering if i can use guitar effects pedals instead of onboard effects on the dp 32sd and if it sounds good thanks.

 

[-mjk-]

Of course.

 

[SocProf]

As the saying goes, "If it sounds good, it is good."

 

[Londinium Pete]

I want to do the same with my Model 12. I'm considering buying a TC Electronics MojoMojo overdrive pedal that I would use as an insert - would this work levels-wise? I assumed I could just use a standard Y-cable on either of the insert jacks (1, 2). I've done a bit of youtubing on the effects pedal topic and have become a bit confused between Line and Instrument levels when it comes to running signals from mixer through effects pedals.

Similarly, I'm uncertain which cables (TRS or TS) I should be using if I wanted to run a synth through the overdrive pedal and then into the mixer to record the track with the effect on it. I only have TRS cables and would hope to avoid having to buy TS cables.

Any advice on the successful and safe application of guitar effects pedals in an electronic music studio context would be welcome here. Cheers!

 

[Mark Richards]

Londinium Pete wrote: I assumed I could just use a standard Y-cable on either of the [Model 12] insert jacks... a bit confused between Line and Instrument levels when it comes to running signals from mixer through effects pedals.

Pete,
While written for the portastudios, many of the sticky thread posts here in this "2488 and DP-24/32/SD" forum also apply in general to your newer Model 12.

You'll find detailed answers to your questions in the sticky threads that are pinned in the shaded area on the first page.

The "Equipment Related Tips" sticky thread has the technical info, and the "Production Tips" sticky thread has the "how to" info.

Each sticky thread has an index as the first post.

I would caution strongly against using a "Y" connector. Signal degradation being the main reason. Potentially short circuiting the signal flow being the second.
(senior moment. misinterpreted the question. )

"Instrument" and "Line Level" are the same thing: high impedance circuitry. Explained in the sticky threads.

 

[Londinium Pete]

Thanks for pointing me to the relevant threads @Mark Richards - I'll get stuck into them. Cheers!

 

[-mjk-]

@Mark Richards said:

I would caution strongly against using a "Y" connector. Signal degradation being the main reason. Potentially short circuiting the signal flow being the second.

Mark I think what @Londinium Pete means is a standard insert cable, which utilizes a TRS plug on one end in an unbalanced configuration to 2 TS plugs for the I/O interface with the outside world. It does look like a "Y cable". That cable is specifically meant for plugging into an Insert Jack only.

 

[Mark Richards]

agree, mj. I seem to be having a CBF day (they still come and go).

I'll just strike through that part of my post.

 

[Londinium Pete]

Thanks for clarifying my query there @-mjk- , yes that's exactly the type of cable I mean. Have to say, I've been absorbed the last hour or so in the various topics covered by Mark's amazing Production Tips stickied posts, but was still puzzling over his suggestion to avoid the so-called 'Y-cable'. So this clarification is reassuring.

My conclusion is that I'll be okay experimenting with a guitar effects pedal with an ('y') insert cable on the Model 12 insert jacks. It's also reassuring that the M12 manual says, "MIC/LINE (BAL)/INST TRS input jacks support high impedance (Hi-Z) on every channel".

 

[-mjk-]

@Londinium Pete considering what @Mark Richards has been through in the last year (no details, but it's really bad (i.e. CBF)) we all need to cut him a little slack. I knew what he meant, and yeah those Y-cable splitters are a bad idea generally speaking, but I also knew what you meant.

Mark's contributions to the forum are incalculable (not to leave anyone else out of that category, as there are quite a few). He's an actual audio engineer.

 

[-mjk-]

agree, mj. I seem to be having a CBF day (they still come and go).

I'll just strike through that part of my post.

We got your back, bro.

 

[2807]

Hmm. I tried plugging the "out" cable of my guitar pedal board directly to input H and thought I could outsmart the system and have all my pedals and record accordingly. I did set the switch to guitar.

It seems like the delay pedal worked but the good ol' Boss Blues Driver did not, and it is key to getting the sound.

It sounded awful like a clean guitar with nothing more than a bad distorted/clip of some sort. I had the pedal at a very very low gain, but even so, shouldn't I be able to do this at any gain level? I had the guitar input H at a high gain but not clipping by any measure.

What am I missing here?

I sure would like to plug my pedal board direct into the DP-32 and not mic the amp, but without the "Blues Driver" to get a little grit, I am back to square one. Yes, I am aware there are guitar/amp effects on the DP-32, but I am trying to use my pedal board and see if that will work before I start to learn the on-board effects of the unit.

Yes, I am new.
Thanks folks.

 

[Mark Richards]

pedal board directly to input H...set the switch to guitar...had the guitar input H at a high gain.

I see you've been a member since last November, so hope you've become familiar with the stickies.

If not, I suggest you first read the New Members sticky thread for important/critical information that may save you grief down the road; and for information on how to do an effective forum search.

To your question
There's more to making connections than inserting plugs, and that's one reason why we created the stickies.

The first post of each sticky thread is an index. Start with the Equipment Related Tips sticky and look for posts that contain information about connecting outboard gear, impedance matching, signal levels, and gain staging. You can also make a key-word search of the Equipment Related Tips sticky.

 

[2807]

Thank you. I am not sure I would have gleaned that info from the sticky, it is right at the edge of my ability to follow the lingo. But I am learning. I do see now that I was doing about as wrong as possible. Good grief. That is helpful. I will revisit it.

While we're here, my next analysis will be...

Do I plug the pedal board directly in, or do I leave the board alone, into the amp as normal, but then take the output of the amp directly to the DP32? My amp is a stereo combo amp with a left and right out to an optional external speaker cab. If I use those outs, I will still hear the actual combo amp too, and that is weird. I would want all or nothing so I can tell what is going on.

How do you folks do this? I am thinking just mic'ing the amp is probably easier. But, it would be nice to simply run into the DP32 and see if the sound is ok to me.

I will read the stickies, and I am reading the manual by Mr. Tipping. I just am not sure my rookie question is clearly answered, as maybe no one expected someone like me who is so inept.

Years ago I could tool around on a Roland VS1680 all day and was good at it. But, it's been nearly 25 years, and I am rusty. I used all onboard effects then and was happy. Now, I am partial to my nice pedals and Magnatone amp, so I am trying to learn a new way on a new system.

thank you for any help.

 

[-mjk-]

@2807 assuming that you are getting the sound you want out of the pedal board (which is the point of using one, I think), you want to take the output of the pedal board and connect it to a line level input on the DP machine (any input is OK but if you're using the "H" input, do not use the Guitar switch). Start with the trim knob fully counter-clockwise.

 

[2807]

Thank you very much. I almost could not have had it more wrong. This forum is so awesome.

Thank you !

 

[BazzBass]

bass can sound great going straight in, no pre amp or anything but for guitar I would mic the amp, get that natural speaker breakup if that is the sound you are wanting to capture

And yes, the guys here really know their stuff, and more importantly are willing to share their knowledge gleened over many years in the recording industry.

 

[-mjk-]

To be honest, I never mic an amp in my personal studio. All my electric guitar sounds are recorded direct. That's just how it works out in my situation. Back in Boston the situation was entirely reversed.

 

[2807]

Thank you for the help! I am going to try a few ways and just see what my options sound like. I appreciate the help.

Onward !

 

[2807]

Hmmm. Has anyone done this with total success? Or is using a pedal board always a bit tricky and require impedance math and higher-level analysis depending on your board and ohms and things like that?

I did what was addressed above, and the sticky, and it was better for sure. But in no way did it sound like my typical sound coming from my amp. I understand, this is not "the amp" so I take that into consideration, but just the fundamental sound of a Boss Blues Breaker to slightly dirty-up the signal/tone was still not pleasant.

With the gain on the input (I used input 3) all the way down, it worked, and I turned up the gain on the unit slowly, and tried turning up the level on the pedal and tweaking them both slowly, but it just never really sounded right.

So, I am curious if I need t keep at it, or is the use of a pedal board always a bit hit-and-miss due to electrical signal issues? And, yes, after a bit, I used a microphone on the amp and was able to move on, but that is a whole other issue...

Thanks folks !