DM3200 + HUI banking question

[cmaffia]

I'm not familiar with that kind of setting in Cubase and if it is available, its not enabled by default. The fact that it does it in Nuendo and Cubase makes me now think its possibly the Machine Control or a setting on the DM. Really can't tell unless we go over every setting in both the DAW and DM.

 

[Gerk]

I just stared at almost every setting on the DM that could be applicable and I don't think there's anything on the actual DM that can set this sort of preference, even in all the compex midi setup stuff, there's nothing that controls the type of banking that happens, the only place this could be is in the REMOTE screen on one of the tabs, and there's nothing there either.

Does it say '16' beside the choice in the EXT. CTRL screen for the control emulation? If it does then as far as the board is concerned it's in 16 channel mode for the remote layer.

I would also suggest to try removing the emulation and re-adding it in the two screens now that your firmware is updated. If that doesn't work I officially have no idea on what else could be messing with things on the DM itself. It really does seem like this is an external software issue as opposed to a DM issue.

 

[skier]

And I looked at the DM's settings myself when I was trying to help Gerk with this following his initial post — I, too, don't think this is in the DM..... unless it's labeled in some unclear manner or caused by the combination of two or more DM seemingly unrelated settings.

 

[Peter Batah]

@skier @Gerk I wonder if performing a factory reset might be a good start. Then work my way from there. @Gerk You asked: "Does it say '16' beside the choice in the EXT. CTRL screen." Please see screenshot. Just so I understand correctly. When the rest of you hit right arrow to move to the second bank does the leftmost fader control track 17?

 

[Peter Batah]

Just for giggles I decided to setup a test project with 48 tracks. This is the banking sequence:

Bank 1 - Tracks 1 -> 16
Bank 2 - Tracks 9 -> 24
Bank 3 - Tracks 17 -> 32
Bank 4 - Tracks 25 -> 40
Bank 5 - Tracks 33 -> 48

Strange pattern. If I removed Banks 2 & 5 from this equation all would be good!

 

[skier]

@skier @Gerk Just so I understand correctly. When the rest of you hit right arrow to move to the second bank does the leftmost fader control track 17?

By the right arrow, if you mean key F2 in the Machine Control section, the answer is yes, and the right-modst fader will control track 32; the faders switch in groups of 16.

What you describe in post 45 is strange and I've never seen that on my system. However, there is a switch within Pro Tools that allows us to select the behavior we've discussed about moving 16 tracks at a time, or moving to keep all faders utilized, even if there are fewer tracks than full groups of 16.

 

[Arjan P]

Bank 1 - Tracks 1 -> 16
Bank 2 - Tracks 9 -> 24
Bank 3 - Tracks 17 -> 32
Bank 4 - Tracks 25 -> 40
Bank 5 - Tracks 33 -> 48
Strange pattern. If I removed Banks 2 & 5 from this equation all would be good!

Well, this is what the issue is about, right? This is banking in steps of 8 channels, doesn't seem strange to me - annoying, yes! I'll do some testing tomorrow, hardly ever use the remote layer normally.

 

[Peter Batah]

@skier You asked: "By the right arrow, if you mean key F2 in the Machine Control section"
Yes

 

[skier]

Well, this is what the issue is about, right? This is banking in steps of 8 channels, doesn't seem strange to me - annoying, yes! I'll do some testing tomorrow, hardly ever use the remote layer normally.

To me, the strange part is the overlap of 8 channels. That said, the two options offered by Pro Tools are the decision of their developers, to either move in groups of 16 or to keep all faders utilized with no concern as to the number of overlapped channels as first described by the OP. Therefore, to me, it's just as likely that Cubase's developers could have decided to go with banks of 8 tracks at a time. If so, do Cubase users with DM mixers have one or more other options, such as working in groups of non-overlapping 16 track banks (or 24 in the case of DM4800 owners). If so, those settings would be somewhere in Cubase.

Off to go skiing; I'll check back in tomorrow.

 

[Arjan P]

I look at it more like all 48 channels shifting under the faders from right to left in steps of 8 i.s.o. 16. As if the mixer is a 16-channel wide looking glass that is moved 8 channels at a time.

I think the issue is not so much Cubase itself, but the implementation of the Mackie protocol in it. My studio is warming up, so I'll have a look soon.

 

[Peter Batah]

If I have a project that is made up of 17 mono audio channels I was under the impression that tracks 1-16 would be controlled by fader bank 1 and the remaining track 17 would appear on fader 1 of bank 2. That seems to be the logical progression. Or am I misunderstanding the entire concept. What do I know?

 

[Arjan P]

Peter, that's indeed how it should work; banking in groups of 16 tracks.

BTW, I have the same issue: banking in groups of 8 only. Everything looks okay and I can't figure out where the problem originates. I did have the Mackie controls at 'Cubase', but changing them to 'Compatibility' didn't make a difference..

Interestingly, Cubase shows initially tracks 1-16 as remotely controlled (the vertical line next to the track numbers) and then shows as follows:
Banking F2: indication changes to 17-24; mixer actually at 9-24
Banking F2: indication changes to 25-32; mixer actually at 17-32
Banking F2: indication changes to 33-40; mixer actually at 25-40
Banking F2: indication changes to 41-48; mixer actually at 33-48
And going back:
Banking F1: indication changes to 25-40; mixer actually at 25-40 << Interesting one!
Banking F1: indication changes to 17-32; mixer actually at 17-32
Banking F1: indication changes to 9-24; mixer actually at 9-24
Banking F1: indication changes to 1-16; mixer actually at 1-16

Oh well, pushing F2 or F1 twice is an easy enough workaround..

(BTW nudging - F5 and F6 - works as expected; one track further/back)

 

[Peter Batah]

@Arjan P Thanks so much for making the effort. I really appreciate it. I am wondering why this scenario hadn't come to light in the past. Or, perhaps I didn't get the memo!

 

[Gerk]

Super strange and I honestly don't know what else to tell you to try, my issue was just a PT setting so I guess I just got lucky

 

[skier]

Yes, not having or knowing Cubase, I, too, am at a loss to suggest anything else to try.

 

[Peter Batah]

@skier Thanks for chiming in. Are you using Protools as well? Peter

 

[skier]

Yes. For many years, I used Ensoniq's DAW: Paris, even after they went out of business. Along the way, I tried Logic, but found it not intuitive to me (I'm sure this has more to do with how a person works than anything). When I tried Pro Tools about 5 years ago, I found it to be very much like using a desk and recording to tape, so I dropped Paris and have been on PT ever since.

 

[cmaffia]

I wonder if this happens to me too with Cubase but never realized it? I never bank using the DM3200 controls as I exclusively use Steinberg's CC121 transport hardware. I have it next to my keyboard which makes transport control, jogging/scrub etc much more ergonomic than using the DM.

 

[skier]

It's easy enough for you to check. You may not want to use it and favor the CC121, but we might learn that what Peter is seeing is typical when using Cubase and the DM; or not.

 

[Peter Batah]

As @Arjan P mentions in post #57 he seems to be experiencing the same thing that I am. So theoretically, the same should be true for all Cubase users. I should try dusting off my JL Cooper CS-102 and see what results I get. Other than the fact that you can only ride one fader at a time, the CC121 looks nice. Unless, of course I am wrong about that!