DP-24 Normalization Clipping my Masters!

[Dave Zippi]

-I am a very happy DP-24 owner & I’m amazed at what it does for the $500 I spent on it. However, learning how to use it is definitely a big “Learning Curve”.

-To save time I usually do my “Mixdowns” on Track 23-24. I then go to “Mixdown” mode where I think the levels are peaking around minus 3-6 dB & with no “Red” showing up in the meters. I then go into “Mastering” mode & I play around with the “Mastering Presets”, set the gain so the meters are reading what I think is minus 3-6 dB & no “Red” again. I then press Record & evaluate. The Levels are good & no “Red”.

-I then press “Normalize” & when I look at the meters afterwards there are always 2 to 4 spots where the master is then in the “Red” for a second.

--I am not a proponent of the “Loudness War” but I’d like a decent respectable level for my masters.

-Is the “normalization” clipping my masters?

-Is there anyone else who has experienced this?

-Any recommendations?

-Many Thanks!

-Dave

 

[Mark Richards]

Look in the "Production Tips" sticky thread index for the post on "Master Recording Volume Level"

 

[Phil Tipping]

In addition to Mark's reply, red lights after normalising (on these machines) simply indicate that normalising has done its job of increasing the song's level until the peaks are at 0dB... but not over.

If you rip and play commercial CDs through the machine, you will usually see the red lights come on. Some people think this implies that the lights come on a bit earlier than 0dB so you have a few dB's in hand and that means it's ok to hit the red when you are adjusting levels manually, but I believe this is a false assumption as in these cases (of manual adjustment) you have no way of knowing if the signal is at or over 0dB. When you use automatic normalising, the process is designed to hit the threshold (which is 0dB on these machines), but not go any higher.

Having said that, there are various arguments about whether 0dB is the right peak level for your type of music, either by manual adjustment or by automatic normalising. You can find information on 'inter-sample' peaks on the internet. Some systems/DAWs allow you to specify a lower value for automatic normalising for this reason.

 

[-mjk-]

IMO, the Normalize function should be removed in a firmware update because it causes more problems than it would ever solve. The correct way to set the final level of the song is to use the mastering tools and set the output of the compressor where you want it to be.

 

[Arjan P]

Having said that, there are various arguments about whether 0dB is the right peak level for your type of music, either by manual adjustment or by automatic normalising. You can find information on 'inter-sample' peaks on the internet. Some systems/DAWs allow you to specify a lower value for automatic normalising for this reason.

Normalization to 0.0 dB was never a good idea, but used to be common practice (or something like -0.2 dB) during the CD mastering years, when mp3 or streaming was hardly current. I should say 'limiting', since most mastering engineers wouldn't and won't use normalization at all. That was 20 years ago, and most CD-players had good enough DA-converters so noone would find any issues. But intersample peaks (True Peak values going over the digital peaks) were an issue then as well.

Currently, most mastering engineers will not go over a True Peak of -1 dB or even less than that in their high resolution files. Not only to prevent overshoots in any DA-circuit, but also, or even mainly because the conversion from high resolution files to mp3 or other compressed formats will also increase the peaks for most music. Another reason is to leave room for the processing at streaming services (loudness equalization) so they won't mess up the sound.

 

[-mjk-]

Yes, no telling what happens to it once you upload it.

 

[Dave Zippi]

-Mark, Thanks for re-directing me to the "Production Tips". I forgot about viewing wave forms.

-Phil, Thanks for the clear & concise response concerning the DP-24's "normalization" levels & the advice on using the "manual gain".

-Also, thanks Arjan & MJK for your insights. They are helpful.

-Dave