DP 24 volume levels and recording the master file

Xi.Ro.Sigma

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Hello to all music heads!

I have another enquiry for the DP-24 Portastudio.

I was recordning vocals on an instrumental with another artist which i worked with for the first time.
We finished the song and the artist left.
I then realize that parts of the vocals are louder than others not giving a balance mix.

I am also aware that through DAW programmes you can use automations in certain points of the tracks to lower or to lift the volume. Would this be possible on the dp24?

Following my question is an idea i had for when you record the "Mastering " file into the DP-24. If you were to alternate the level meters whilst you are recording the master file would that have an effect to the master file?

Hope i find advice.
 
Hello Xi.Ro.Sigma!

When you recorded the song did you use individual tracks for each vocal/instrument? If so then yes you can adjust the levels. Load the song and play it then use the slider for the track you want to adjust and when your happy with the levels then set your in and out points and your ready to master. I hope that explains it clearly.
 
Hello Placebo,

Thank you for your time answering my question.
I am answering back to you to inform you that you might have interperted my question differently then what it means.

I fully understand your answer. And YES i have everything on a separate channel.

My Problem is not masterig the song with my mark in/out points but mastering it when the levels of one song fluctuate alot.

For example:
In the vocal parts the singer had good levels balanced all leveled up in the begining. But at the second part of the song the vocals are lower and at some points there are loud expressions forming the vocals as unbalnced in level wise.

If you know what i mean.
In a DAW you would probably go straight to those points of which you want to lower the voloume and lower it thus meaning that you form an AUTOMATION of the voloume of that particullar track.

Is this a process capable on the Tascam portastudio dp24?

Thank you again
Regards
XiRoSigma
 
There is no automation on the DP-24.

You can use external compression to even out the vocals, or copy the sections that are too loud or too quiet to other tracks and balance them.
 
Goodmorning cda,

I guess you are right there is now automation on the dp24.

But there are ways getting around problems like this as on of them you mentioned.

I also thought about copying the segmenats i want and adjust the levels with the digital trim.

Thank you for your time.
XiRoSigma
 
You can use the bounce function and ride the vocal level throughout the song and, when you are happy with it, you will have a balanced vocal on whichever track you bounced to (did that make sense?)
Alternatively you can ride the vocal track while mastering and that will work (as long as you don't have too many parts to control during the mastering process)
Hope this helps a bit
DavidC
 
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...as mentioned above, compression "going in" (while recording) is a good way to handle this and really is pretty much necessary for vocals especially. I haven't tried the internal dynamics effects, but a good outboard hardware comp is almost always something to consider for vocals and some other mic'd sources. That, along with some mic-technique should do the trick. It should be possible to do some "workaround" if the machine is your only tool. For example, treat the vocal track as a complete multitrack recording and get to the mastering stage where you can apply single or multiband compression to the vocal track and then jump through whatever minor hoops are necessary to import the compressed vocal track back into your multitrack poroject. "THE" vocal sound people are most familiar with is more the result of solid compression ("hard" compression) than automation. So by doing a bounce while riding the levels...OR...by using the onboard compression tools in a creative way (or both), you should be able to handle the issue. In the long run and for future projects, having a good hardware compressor especially for vocals (but also very nice for guitar and bass), can help take your recordings the next step up.
 
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Regarding this:
"For example, treat the vocal track as a complete multitrack recording and get to the mastering stage where you can apply single or multiband compression to the vocal track and then jump through whatever minor hoops are necessary to import the compressed vocal track back into your multitrack project. "

Just to confirm, "master projects" (the term the manual uses to refer to either a mix or a mastered mix) show up in the "music folder" of the machine when connected by USB to computer. These are ordinary stereo .wav files that can be copy/pasted to the computer and then copy/pasted from there back to the DP32 folder for importing. They can then be used as a stereo pair in an existing multitrack project. This is basically accomplishing the same thing as a bounce, although the additional ability to process individual tracks with the "mastering tools" in the machine could be especially useful for some things like slamming a vocal track.
 
David C,

Thank you for answering, I found your help useful and actually allready tried it and i got away with some of my problematations i had.
I guess everything leads up to experimentation and experience curve.
 
Havlicek,

thank you for your time giving me a thorow and long explanation of my question.

I do understand your point of view that it would be logical, smart and usefull to run my vocals through a compression whilst recording them. I LIKE THAT IDEA.

I also like the idea of you saying that i could transfer all the vocal channels to the pc/laptop editing them as i wnt them and passing them back to the dp24/32 but that i gues would take me out of my PC free work flow, but i gues it would be handy and precise.


I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU THOUGH I AM NOT SURE IF YOU WILL EVER READ BUT ANY HOW.

I have never used this techinique of compressing the vocals as they are recorded and i want to try it.
I in matter of fact have a compressor but my problem now is that the microphone i have now works with phantom power.
Could you solve me this problem of how would i connect the:
1: Compressor
2: Phantom powered microphone
with the dp 24.


Thank you again for your time.
Awaiting to here from you

Χί Ρό Σίγμα
 
Hi. First off, people need to understand that "serial compression" (compression applied at different stages...say when recording and then again when mixing) is absolutely fine. Digital converters and analog inputs tend to work better when you "hit" them with a solid signal, and this is not because the DP32 is somehow lacking...this applies in almost ALL circumstances and recording setups. Of course all compressors are not created equal and a $2,000 1176 is going to give a different result than a $200 (or less) VCA type compressor...but you can still get a noticeable benefit when recording mic'd sources by compressing before recording (putting a compressor in the input signal chain outside the machine). This is probably even more the case with vocals than other mic'd sources. Take for example a typical overdriven guitar...the amp itself is decreasing the dynamic range of the guitar by being overdriven...in effect a type of compression. Typical synth/sampler type sounds you get in modern keyboards are really already processed/optimnized in a studio when they record the original samples. Vocals need help to sit well in a mix made up of these other sources, and compression is that "help".

Specifically as to your question about phantom power, there are two ways to handle this. First off, there are so-called "vocal channel" type boxes that have a combination preamp and compression (sometimes also EQ etc.) and even phantom power onboard. You can look at these, ask others which ones work and do a little online research for your budget...some are very good and some are "not so good". You can also get simple "phantom power boxes" in single or multi channel configurations to run your mics outside of the machine's phantom power. ***You can also plug directly into the machine and use the onboard phantom to power your condenser mic and then run the mic'd signal to an outboard compressor using a "send/return" type signal path as you would for effects and "print" the returning signal with compression. I think it's better and simpler to compress "going in", but there are ways to do this other than that way.

***With no inserts at the inputs, you may wind up sending a "preamped signal" to a preamp, so some twiddling with the input controls of the machine and the output controls of either a compressor or a "vocal channel" will be necessary to get the best results...but that's no big deal. ***I'm not recommending any particular unit, but the ART Prochannel II is a good way to have everything you need for mic'd recording in a single package and costs about the same or less than a decent condenser mic. I'm not sure if it has built-in phantom power, so check that, but a separate phantom box is like $25 or so. Yes...this will make your setup a little more complex, but recording vocals without this stuff will necessarily negatively affect the final product. Is it necessary?...NO Will it help take your recordings to the next step?...YES (if you record vocals).
 
I should also mention that, a cheaper way to get a more polished "modern" sounding vocal is to send your vocal track(s) to computer. There are any number of cheap or free softwares available for this and you already have a computer. You can also turn off everything BUT the vocal tracks and do a "mix" or "master" where you apply compression/limiting and then bring the resulting "mix" (which will only have the newly processed vocal track(s) back into the machine (export/import) to use as tracks. That way...you can use the onboard compression when tracking and use multiband or single band compression over that. This way you can get better results using only the tools inside the machine. You just need to do a little figuring on how to send the tracks back and forth to accomplish this, but it works fine.
 
Havlicek,

Thank you once again for yor time to detail and try to explain to me some cloudy areas of comprehension on recording vocals through condensor microphonism and the Dp24 mixer.

I will be researching as you state on hardware equipment to be able to use compression externlally on real time recording.

I understand the fact that there is not only one way around sequential work flows but i will be experimenting with these couple alternatives you gave me.

Respest & Regards
Χί Ρό Σίγμα
 
You're most welcome. Really, my thoughts are about a little creative "thinking outside the box" to get the most out of what is a very cool machine. After a long time of using other "studio in a box" type recorders, it seems that people tend to only use them in the more obvious ways that are laid out in the manuals. The DP24/32 are both deceptively simple and capable at the same time.
 
I use a $30 sound program, Sound Studio (Mac OS). I take the wave file that I've exported to my computer and manually adjust the loud and soft areas of the wave file by selecting them. I can also apply the the normalize filter. Compression is sometimes good and bad. It lowers the resolution of your track. You can easily edit the wave file as well and then import them back to the recorder with this program. I also use it to record analog mixes from the stereo output on the recorder.
 
"Compression is sometimes good and bad. It lowers the resolution of your track."

Compression is neither "good" nor "bad", it's just another tool that decreases dynamic range and doesn't change resolution. A 24 bit track that's compressed will still be a 24 bit track afterwards...that track will only be using less of the total dynamic range afforded by 24 bit.
 
a cheaper way to get a more polished "modern" sounding vocal is to send your vocal track(s) to computer. There are any number of cheap or free softwares available for this and you already have a computer. You can also turn off everything BUT the vocal tracks and do a "mix" or "master" where you apply compression/limiting and then bring the resulting "mix" (which will only have the newly processed vocal track(s) back into the machine (export/import) to use as tracks. That way...you can use the onboard compression when tracking and use multiband or single band compression over that. This way you can get better results using only the tools inside the machine. You just need to do a little figuring on how to send the tracks back and forth to accomplish this, but it works fine.

I used this method to add compression to a single vocal track by mastering it and then took the SD card to my computer and copied that master track to the import folder on the SD card. Back at the machine I could import to a track.

My original thought was to record all vocals without any compression and then use a send effect to a vocal processor such as one that TC Helicon makes. But then I couldn't get the return to record to a specified new track. It looks like it only sends to the bus and then available for a final mix down only? I'm not sure how to record to a new track, or even better to one of the virtual tracks. Any help would be appreciated.
 
G' Day all..

As this thread has "moved on" into a brief discussion on compression, let me just "toss out" that both the -24 & -32 have pretty decent "compressors" built in, and are available on both record/tracking side as well as mix-down/mastering operations. As I've not spent $ on an outboard compressor, and as I use a *free* DAW to "compile" tracks into projects, I've learned to very much appreciate the "on-board" capabilities of my -24.

Having said that, as I'm certain you're aware, "mastering" the use/operation of this units is an on-going process! Owned mine for about 9 months and believe me: still learning every time I use it! LOL!

Have a great one, rock on and be inspired!
 

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