DP24SD Virtual Tracks and Autopunch

[Mitch Gallant]

I have read the manual documentation on this and would like comments on this:

You have say a vocal track and would like to do several takes of a short part of the track. So at the start, the Track is "pointing" by default to Virtual track #1. After setting up autopunch In/Out and with Repeat on, executing Record does Autopunch 8 times with 8 Virtual tracks generated internally. At the end, the Track is pointing to the final virtual track take. I understand how to Load each virtual take to the Track to preview it etc.
So I gather that each of these virtual tracks contains the ENTIRE content of the original track but with only the autopunch part replaced.
(1) Does this mean that the storage for the song is increased by about 8 times the original track size?
(2) repeated autopunching this way generates 8 NEW takes but the original recording take is lost unless the repeated autopunch is UNDONE? What is the most convenient way to also have the original recording handy so it too can be compared to the 8 autopunch takes?
(3) If one uses LOAD of an unused virtual track, this is really only useful if the entire track is to be re-recorded as another take, instead of a partial overdub?

 

[-mjk-]

Hi @Mitch Gallant and welcome to the Tascam Forums.

So I gather that each of these virtual tracks contains the ENTIRE content of the original track but with only the Autopunch part replaced.

No. Autopunch does not copy anything to a track. Repeated auto punch ins will record only during the duration of the record operation, same as a manual punch in, regardless of the virtual track being used.

Edit: When playing back a virtual track that was made with Autopunch, the machine will playback the entire track plus the new punched-in section. Please see post #13 below.

I don't quite understand question #2. When set on repeat, Autopunch starts with the current virtual track and goes up by 1 virtual track with a possible 8 takes/virtual tracks (assuming you started on virtual track #1) and then stops. You also may manually stop it at any time. If you have something already recorded on virtual track 1 that you want to keep, switch to virtual track 2 before you begin Autopunch on repeat mode.

If you have a track that you like (want to compare to) you should do the new takes on a new physical track and use the Autopunch in repeat mode to do the new takes. You can then compare the new takes to the first take on it's own track, side by side.

Question #3 depends upon how you engineer your recordings. You might have snippets of different takes across several physical and virtual tracks. You can do bounces of those snippets and make an assembly of the various takes to a single track. That is very old school analog recording engineering, where we used to fit stuff in between instruments and vocals all over the place.

 

[Saxomohawh]

I think mjk already answered your questions, but I can add that personally I avoid using virtual tracks at all, as long as you have some "real" tracks free. I would record complete takes on separate channels and then keep the best, or copy/paste the best parts onto one track. I think virtual tracks are a mess. It is very easy to get lost, or to erase something by mistake.

 

[Mitch Gallant]

I typically have been doing that .. different takes on a few allocated tracks but decided I should use virtual tracks to save the 24 tracks for different parts.
Since one five tracks can have 8 virtual tracks associated with it and these are saved, surely these take up SD memory? That is what I suggested in my post.
On a newly recorded track, it is assigned the Virtual track 1. Now if I want to keep that take, I can load the next unassigned virtual track (2) and do the autopunch onthat one .. but of course it is an empty track so the result on that VT2 is just the overdubs content without any other part of the original track.

 

[-mjk-]

With a 32G card, and the ability to transfer files and offload them onto a computer via USB, it's kind of a moot point. But yeah they take up an additional few megabytes with each track.

 

[-mjk-]

@Saxomohawh said:

It is very easy to get lost, or to erase something by mistake.

Please see the thread about track sheets for the DP machines.

 

[Saxomohawh]

Probably so. That's where it gets messy. What if you want to keep VT3 but insert a bit from VT2? It probably works. But, messy.....

 

[-mjk-]

That's where copy or clone track can help.

But in my opinion, the real value of virtual tracks is storing stuff that you want to keep, but you don't necessarily need right now. Sometimes when editing, I will make a safety back up to a virtual track in case I goof up the edit. I wish I had that many storage tracks back in the 24 track days.

I might put four guitar harmonies on tracks one through four. Typically I triple track everything, so I'll do it again on virtual track two and virtual track three. Then I make submixes of those harmony tracks. I keep the original tracks on the virtual tracks for storage, and then do new stuff on the newer virtual tracks. By the time I'm finished, the latest virtual tracks represent the latest version of what I'm doing. But anytime I need to, I can go back to earlier versions.

 

[David Porter]

The organization of multiple performance takes across multiple tracks as well as V-tracks are only limited to your imagination and basic organization skills. Creating notes (or track sheets) is obviously the best way.

It's quite possible - or do-able- to take a performance from a given track (let's say track 8, V-track 1).... clone that track to track 7.... then clone that back again to track 8, V-track 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

Then set up your punch in/out preferences - and have at it.

Like MJK pointed out - given that you can save *ALL* performance data without limit.... you can do this all day long. It's relatively easy, not that time consuming, and has no real limits. Bitchen!

 

[Mark Richards]

More on this in the Production Tips sticky:
Using Track Sheets.................................................................................. Post 33, 42
Getting the Most Out of Your Machine: Virtual Tracks......................... Post 54, 55
Using Auto-Punch................................................................................... Post 70

 

[Mitch Gallant]

Thanks for all this info. I had thought of a few of these ideas ... cloning etc but this covers a lot. I guess planning and organizing is the key here too. Luckily with VTs its very easy to load them and preview before accidently clearing one .. but then undo still works for this.

 

[Mitch Gallant]

With a 32G card, and the ability to transfer files and offload them onto a computer via USB, it's kind of a moot point. But yeah they take up an additional few megabytes with each track.

I just checked the memory used by virtual track usage. For example, starting with a 3 min single track, about 15Mb for a 16/44.1, I ran autopunch/REPEAT for a short segment of that track, generating 8 virtual tracks. Loading any of these VTs and playing contains the entire track with the punchin edit. The total extra memory for that song increases only by the size of the punched in part X8. So internally, virtual tracks use memory efficiently for this type of repeat autopunch from an existing track.

 

[-mjk-]

That is because of the way the DP machine manages the internal zz files. Instead of making a copy of the entre track, it uses the internal file for the main part of the new virtual track and it only makes a snippet for the new section. It manages them and seamlessly plays the individual internal zz files together as appropriate. The system is remarkably efficient and quite amazing when you stop and thing about what the machine is actually doing in real time.

This makes your original statement: "So I gather that each of these virtual tracks contains the ENTIRE content of the original track but with only the autopunch part replaced." correct in that when playing back the virtual track you can hear the entire track along with the auto punch in. I will edit my previous comment to reflect the viewpoint of practical operation.