IF-FW/DMmkII discontinued

[Gravity Jim]

Confirming new information from another thread, I clicked the "Buy Now" button under the description of the IF-FW/DMmkII on Tascam's site and started clicking on retailer's links. It appears that the information they gave another forum member is true: the FireWire card is listed as "Discontinued" on every site but one.

With the death of the 4800, the slowness to officially release the final OSX driver, and now the discontinuation of the FireWire card, I have a heavy heart for the future of our beloved DM mixers. As I've always said, I didn't care if they stopped making the desk: if it works, it works. I hope this doesn't mean the end of support. The recent Gibson purchase does cause one pause with this news.

RedBus... Please tell me I'm as wrong as I'd love to be.

 

[Arjan P]

If the IF/FW mkII is indeed discontinued, that can only lead to the next step: Discontinuation of the DM-3200. There will always be users in live sound, but in that segment there are so many competitive products that I don't see the DM surviving there (and for live sound I think the DM is not all that practical, certainly compared to the competition). Bad news either way..

 

[Gravity Jim]

Agreed.

 

[captdan]

You might remember the brief discussion we had around the time I returned from NAMM, including Red Bus's comments. If not, you might want to check out the posts again. They might answer your questions - if not directly, then by simple deduction.



CaptDan

 

[Gravity Jim]

One of our members who had a physical problem with his card was told by Tascam support that the FireWire card was no more. The retailers are only confirming the horse's mouth. I'll look for that thread.....

Ah. Somehow I missed that discussion about the limited supply of DSP chips. So, the DM was not likely to make it another year, anyway. I didn't know.

 

[captdan]

As the 'King' in the movie 'Amadeus' was fond of saying................................................

"...........And there it is!"

CaptDan

 

[Gravity Jim]

Yeah.

 

[captdan]

Personal opinion....

I wouldn't get too worried yet about DM cards - particularly the Firewire flavor. Tascam more than likely has a good stock at this time, which - all things being equal - should ensure at least a few years to the users.

Or - failing that - we all know there are 'secondary markets' where these types of OEM parts tend to appear....'ePay, et al...."

Gauging by previous 'legacy' issue, there seems to be little trouble in discovering new recycle sources all over the dang place.

CaptDan

 

[Gravity Jim]

Obviously we can use our consoles for years to come. If the day comes where I need (due to other software demands) to upgrade the computer to an OS that breaks the IF-FW driver, well, that will be a time of decision. But till then, I'm good.

 

[cmaffia]

With confirmation of the firewire card being discontinued, along with 100% confirmation that there won't be a successor to the DM series, sure sounds like to me beginning of the end of Tascam...at least to the Tascam I knew and loved during the late 70's and 80's. This is just great...now there's no affordable semi-pro audio hardware being offered by anyone. Tascam always filled this niche! I have no idea what the pencil pushers were thinking when they decided to give up this monopoly and that going with the more competitive cheap consumer market was a better idea! I'm guessing part of their decision was based on it being a lot easier to drop their more expensive flagship products in favor of disposable products with low customer expectation rates rather than fix the real problems. Over the years Tascam sales suffered from both poor marketing and unfortunately well broadcasted negative technical support experiences all over the internet. They are following Akai's roadmap to failure...which is to become a mere shadow of the greatness they used to be.

Tascam Executive Leadership...it's not too late to reverse course!

 

[Gravity Jim]

I dunno, Charlie. I fear it is. All Gibson wanted from Tascam was some low-level digital recording IP they could have developed themselves for far less investment (a typical Gibson error), and anything that might still turn a buck with no further R&D (for example, the broadcast/field recorder stuff). The DM series doesn't fit either of those categories. As for updating them, they can't compete with Behringer on price, Presonus on functionality, or SSL on sheer craveability surrounding the brand (the Nucleus sells for about $1,300 more than I paid for my DM rig, which is not a big gap... had it been available then, I might own one now), and it would still require an investment from Gibson.

Still, my rig still works today just like it did yesterday, and I'm sure I have a few years before I have to make any software vs DM decisions. Yes, it's a bummer, but we'll soldier on. My concern is support: the current beta drivers should have been released long ago, and now it seems the beta page is unresponsive. Here's hoping that's a coincidence.

 

[cmaffia]

Does the nucleus provide audio in/out like the firewire card does on the DM? In other words Does it provide an audio interface to the PC or is that separate? What affordable digital boards provide that today besides the DM?

 

[captdan]

Again - only personal opinion.

Putting the DM consoles aside for a moment, because we all agree about their usefulness and, design, I think a fair evaluation of Tascam's future can be guestimated by looking back at Gibson's history. It began as a small, quality oriented company dedicated to innovative string instrument crafting and manufacture. Then, in the 1950s, CMI purchased them but allowed Gibson to remain independent and innovative under Ted McCarty's able leadership. CMI sold part - or all - of their holdings to a foreign company, which then sold out everything to Norlin Industries in '68.

Norlin began to immediately blue-pencil everything Gibson was doing - reworking the production lines and insisting certain high end product share materials with other models to save costs. That became Norlin's entire goal - cost savings, efficiency, and increase in market share. This lead to the lowest time in the company's history - a period of spotty quality control, shoddy workmanship, and lost credibility. It wasn't until the old timers split from Norlin to found 'Heritage Guitars' that anything resembling the old way of doing things would re-emerge.

Norlin dumped Gibson shortly thereafter, and the new Gibson Corp/Industries is a whole nuther thing. They are already branding Tascam as a 'Gibson Company,' and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them take the entire company over under the Gibson aegis. This would most likely mean a massive overhaul in products, marketing, and mission. And all this is probably going on right now, behind the scenes, ahead of a new era in widgetry and strange gadgetry.

Charlie, you make many valid points. But somehow I doubt Tascam is in a position to address them. It's a new team with a new game - a process being repeated in companies all over this country and across the globe.

I've just come to the inescapable conclusion, that if I don't make something myself, whoever does can change it, re-arrange it, or discontinue it altogether. I've got absolutely zero control over that.

YMMV.

CaptDan

 

[Gravity Jim]

The Nucleus does do audio: but it's only four- in/four-out, essentially two stereo pairs. Still, I could easily make that work with a simple patchbay. I'd be more likely to start working ITB, with or without a control surface.

I started wool gathering about a set up like the latter. Where would I unload all the extra cables?

I raise my glass to Tascam: 20 years as an audio pro, bookended by Tascam products. They will be missed.

 

[Gravity Jim]

"This would most likely mean a massive overhaul in products, marketing, and mission."

Not to mention a horrifying erosion of brand value. Those idiotic sunburst "Les Paul monitors" they rushed into production for NAMM have got Henry's whackass fingerprints all over them.

 

[cmaffia]

The Nucleus does do audio: but it's only four- in/four-out, essentially two stereo pairs. Still, I could easily make that work with a simple patchbay. I'd be more likely to start working ITB, with or without a control surface.

I started wool gathering about a set up like the latter. Where would I unload all the extra cables?

I raise my glass to Tascam: 20 years as an audio pro, bookended by Tascam products. They will be missed.

That's not enough. I guess I will be upgrading no higher than Windows 8.1 if and freezing my software/hardware for as long as possible.

 

[captdan]

The Nucleus is a durn nice product; the Matrix - more so. Then there's the next rung up in the product line, a stellar line up of fine consoles. All pricey, but most - likely - to be supported for the interim. (No guarantees, though.)

I have zero plans to change my setup. If down the road, fire wire is longer be an option, I'll just add appropriate Avid(tm) (or whatever it'll be called in the future) interface(s), and use the DM as a control surface. No matter what, costs will be unavoidable. The only question will be whether the money is better spent on a new controller/hybrid (which may no longer be available in the new product market), or if it's better invested in individual modular solutions keeping the DM as workhorse 'sidecar' tool.

To borrow Jamsire's sig line: "Who cares? I make music!"

CaptDan

 

[RedBus]

We're searching the globe for any remaining stocks of the DICE-2 chip to be able to manufacture more IF-FW/DMmkIIs...

The DICE driver is shared with the later revisions of the chips that are still being made, so I'm not worried that an OS upgrade obsoletes it in one shot.
Windows 10 is coming though, and Microsoft will be attempting to obsolete Windows 7 and 8 by only doing fixes and features for Win10.

 

[cmaffia]

To borrow Jamsire's sig line: "Who cares? I make music!"

I just want a contingency plan so I can still say "Who cares? I make music!" if a worst case scenario happens and I lose my DM3200 tomorrow or they are no longer available/supported. My whole studio is built around the DM3200 down to my vocal booth and live room. I wish I could say I will have the next gen Tascam console in its place one day.

We're searching the globe for any remaining stocks of the DICE-2 chip to be able to manufacture more IF-FW/DMmkIIs...

Thank God for RedBus is all I can say. We salute you sir!

 

[Gravity Jim]

Agreed... I think we're probably over Apple's largest OS hump in terms of driver compatibility for a good, long while (and kext signing doesn't matter to me, anyway... I have it disabled to run TRIM on my Samsung SSDs), and I'll run 10.10 til Doomsday if everything I need still runs under it. So I have no plans to change anything, either... just mentally preparing for some future day. If Kontakt 11 or Omnisphere 5 requires an OSXII update that won't run the driver, then I'll have a real problem, but not until.