MIDIstudio 644 - Complete Recording Process for an 8 Channel Mix

[blackimpurity]

Looking for a complete rundown of how to record 8 channels onto the 644. I know there will be bouncing involved, but I'm unclear on exactly how to do it and what options I have when it comes to mixing with outboard equipment also. If anybody is willing to help out, here's what I'm hoping to record:

1. Kick
2. Snare
3. Overhead L
4. Overhead R
5. Guitar L
6. Guitar R
7. Bass
8. Vox

Overheads will be basically hard-panned, as will guitars, so I want to retain the stereo image of those in the final bounce. Everything else is mono.

I'm planning on using a four-channel Behringer compressor on the way in for the drums (as compressing after the recording could cause swells in tape hiss volume?), as well as the other instruments, possibly.

I also have a two-channel Yamaha EQ that I'd like to use on each channel after they've been recorded. I might get another one if I have to so that I can do drums all in one pass. If you also have any suggestions for other outboard gear that might be handy (Rev/Delay is an option, but the Aux sends/returns are probably a whole new can of worms).

Everything will be recorded separately (eg: drums, then guitar, then bass, then vox).

If possible, can somebody give me a complete rundown from start to finish of how to do this? I'm relatively experienced in audio, however basically completely new to cassette recording and not a whole lot of experience in running completely analogue. Recorded a few things with a 424 - however only ever with 4 channels which was relatively uncomplicated but still a learning curve. Let me know if you need any more information.

Also ISO a power supply for it

 

[Mark Richards]

@blackimpurity, welcome to the community.
The Owner Manual and a video tutorial for the 644MIDISTUDIO are available here at no cost.

The video tutorial and OM provide detailed descriptions of signal flow; step-by-step instructions for recording, overdubbing, punching, and bouncing tracks; interfacing outboard gear; mixdown, etc. "Duel Mode" could be particularly useful for your purposes.

Best of luck with your project.

 

[blackimpurity]

Thank you @Mark Richards

I should have mentioned I have already read through that section of the manual - but still struggling to get my head around general tape recording conventions. For example, if I were to bounce my four channels of drums into two tracks (needs to be stereo), and then recorded LR guitars - would I be able to bounce them down into the same tracks as the drums? And then that would leave me with two tracks left, which I could then use for my bass and vox. Or should the LR guitars be bounced to the other two free tracks first, and then the bass and vox printed onto one/two of the other tracks?

 

[-mjk-]

Looking for a complete rundown of how to record 8 channels onto the 644

This is like asking how to fly a plane, step-by-step, only on one dies if your session crashes.

For example, if I were to bounce my four channels of drums into two tracks (needs to be stereo), and then recorded LR guitars - would I be able to bounce them down into the same tracks as the drums?

The issue is, you got 4 tracks. So you're basically in 1966 recording technology territory but want 21st Century results. That's not going to happen. I've been a recording engineer since high school and I could get something halfway decent but if you've never done this kind of thing before you are not going to get that result.

But by all means try it.

You want stereo drums. OK, but take a listen to make 60s records like Paul Revere & The Raiders and you'll hear a single mono drum track off to the side. Then you'll hear the guitars off to the left a bit to give a feel for stereo.

If I were to approach this to get the stereo results you need, here is what I would do.

Assign drums to 2 tracks, in stereo. Assign the bass to both of those tracks (equal in both tracks so it's centered). Record the drums and bass together.

I would bounce those tracks with the guitars onto the remaining 2 tracks. That is going to require several takes to get the balance right.

Then record the vocals by bouncing the drum/bass/guitar submix onto the first 2 tracks (erasing them). That's about all you can do. You'll add a bunch of noise and it will end up being a big mess probably. But by all means, try it. You'll learn a lot. You'll have to do it many times over until you get sick enough of it to get a real multitrack recorder like a DP-32SD or other.

This would work a whole lot better is you were recording a live band. There just are not enough storage tracks on a 4 track machine. That's why in the 60s it was bass + drums together (mono) vocals, guitars/keyboards and whatever else was on the record, all in mono, or some thing very carefully spread across 2 of those precious tracks, but they were all live performances of bands.

 

[blackimpurity]

Thanks for the insight @-mjk- this certainly gives me some more clarity and a clearer picture on how to approach this.

Attached is the scene matrix from the 644, which shows the channel inputs along the top (which you assign to mic/line via another matrix), and the "groups" which are the tape tracks. Would this mean I would be able to assign all four drum tracks (channels 1-4) to groups 1 & 2 and record them straight to there, then have the 2 guitar tracks (channels 5 & 6) assigned to groups 3 & 4? Then bass and vox (channels 7 & 8) can be assigned equally to groups 1-2 and 3-4 respectively as a mono source?

I'm just thinking out loud a little - having 8 channels available on the mixer and a tape track assignment matrix that allows you to choose where each of those 8 tracks can go across the 4 tape tracks makes me think I might not even need to do much ping-pong recording, as I can record directly onto the tape tracks from multiple sources. Or am I completely mistaken and will having multiple sources on one tape track erase the content on that track when recording another source over the top?

Also attached a rough table of what I'm trying to explain. Going my the OM, I think you are able to assign a single channel to multiple tape tracks (pg. 17) - but I'm not sure what the exact implications of this would be and if what I'm explaining is possible.



Again, I've little experience with recording to tape, so I'm still figuring out the general conventions

 

[shredd]

OK…fine. I’ll be the jerque here:

The point is that you can’t make modern-sounding mewzyk on decades-old technology - no matter how you use it.

So - either:
Get comfortable with the limitations of your gear & the results it’s capable of producing (that’s assuming that YOU are capable of getting any kind of results out of it, and without being walked through it step-by-step)…and adapt your goals to that.
Or - equip yourself with gear that’s capable of producing the results you want, & develop your workflow (read: “educate yourself and learn from experience”)…

Bottom line: “Create Realistic Expectations”. You’ll save yourself a lot of frustration, disappointment, and wasted effort.

 

[blackimpurity]

Not looking to make "modern-sounding" or clean music - otherwise I wouldn't have bought the unit.

Like I said - I've recorded a few four-track demos with a standard 424 with no issues- so I am capable of getting some kind of result out of it without needing to be walked through it step-by-step...

That being said, I came here as I'm simply asking how to get the most out of the 8 channels with the 644, and seeing how/if I can get all those 8 channels/sources to get printed onto the four tracks and with the stereo image of the OH's and guitars.

I'm simply trying to see the actual limitations of this piece of equipment - if this unit isn't able to do this then I might have to keep an eye out for a 688.

 

[Phil Tipping]

would I be able to bounce them down into the same tracks as the drums?

I may have misunderstood your dilemma, but I'll add my 2c anyway. The general process of bouncing is to mix one or more existing tracks with (optionally) one or more live signals, with optional FX & panning, and record the result onto one or more tracks.
Those latter tracks will be overwritten, and usually cannot (depending on the machine) be the same tracks as the source tracks.
Each bounce will introduce more tape hiss so the trick is to minimise the number of bounces.
This means it's more of an exercise in logic to record and bounce things in the correct order, so you're doing the right thing by mapping it out on paper first.

 

[blackimpurity]

Ok, thanks for the clear-up @Phil Tipping

I guess then the best way would be to track drums, bass and vox live and assign them all to tracks 1 & 2, and then track left and right guitars onto tracks 3 & 4. Appreciate the input from everyone

 

[-mjk-]

In the old days some machines had what was called "Sound on Sound" where the audio could be added to by multiple passes. That doesn't exist on your machine. When you press Record, it erases the track that is armed.

 

[Mark Richards]

@blackimpurity, to help summarize:

As described by the OM in detail, you have choices for creating music:

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1. You can Overdub: Add new tracks; or​

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2. You can Bounce: Combine new material and existing material on a separate armed target track, erasing any old material that may have been on the armed target track; and you can Bounce in stereo using two armed target tracks; or​

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3. With thoughtful planning, you can Overdub and Bounce, multiple times, in separate steps. Even with DBX engaged, each Bounce will add some hiss, which eventually after multiple Bounces builds to a distracting level (and, of course, a clean and demagnetized tape path is essential for optimum results); or​

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4. You can Punch new material into segments of already recorded tracks that have silent segments (e.g., a lead guitar part could be placed on silent portions of the vocal track).​

​

And also to be clear: your opening post reads: "Looking for a complete rundown of how to record 8 channels onto the 644...from start to finish". A full, complete, accurate response to that request would require at least 10 pages on standard letter size paper.