Model 24 MAIN Mix Fader/Mute/EQ does not function?

[IanG]

When playing back anything from my PC, my DAW, or even a live microphone in any channel, the main fader can be all the way down, muted, and everything, but as long as I have the channel's "Main" buttons pushed in and the faders up I can always hear anything. It seems like this is not normal? Like the main fader doesn't do anything. If I am printing tracks from my DAW onto a track with 23/24 as my imput, it will still record the main even if the fader is all the way down. This makes no sense.

 

[IanG]

Oh also, I do still get signal lights on the main screen, but it still does not make a difference.

 

[-mjk-]

Please review the videos we've referenced here: https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/tutorial-and-informational-videos-for-model-24-16-12.7922/ This issue is common and the manual doesn't explain the monitoring very well. Often users are listening in PFL mode which of course, bypasses faders.

 

[IanG]

Hmm these didn't really seem to go over what I am looking for. No I am not just accidentally pushing in a PFL button. I am reprinting tracks down onto my DAW, putting the imput to 23/24, but the MAIN fader still seems to not have any effect on the signal at all.

 

[IanG]

At, least if there is a video that specifically covers sending tracks through your DAW, into your board, and then reprinting, using the MAIN fader could you point it to me?

 

[robin courtenay]

I think the main fader just controls the volume of the main xlr outputs .

 

[Matthew Fogel]

I have a model 24 and do mix through it. I believe that all channels including 23/24 are recorded PFL whether to the DAW or the the internal SD card. So in order to control levels to the individual channels when tracking, one uses the Gain knob and for the individual channel volume. During playback and to affect the printed master file (whether to MTR or DAW) one would use the faders of the individual tracks to adjust the levels (ie: you mix) It acts pretty much like an analog board with a tape recorder attached to it via an internal send after the low cut and compressor but before the equalizer for each channel.

 

[IanG]

Matthew I think you may have misunderstood my question a little bit, but I have figured it out.

Yes, 23/24 is recorded PFL, so if you set your printback track in your DAW to 23/24, the MAIN out fader does not control the signal at all. Pulled all the way down, you still get complete signal.

The main outs are controlling the XLRs, and I needed to find a way to print using the master fader because I use the SUB fader as an instrument control group, and the main fader as a trim.

What I am doing is sending tracks from my DAW into the model 24's channels and summing the mix through the MAIN out xlrs into an outboard stereo master bus compressor, then back into the board (19/20) set to live with gain set to 0, then I have a printback track in my DAW (Pro Tools in this case) with it's input set to that channel (19/20) which is set for input monitoring. Then the out of the printback track is sent to 21/22, and in that channel I have PFL selected and it is NOT sending to the main or sub. This makes it so that I can hear all of the signal processing done in my DAW and outside of the DAW in the board or an outboard master bus chain.

 

[Matthew Fogel]

Ian,

I believe you have a solution figured out for your desired workflow. So long as you don't have the "main" button selected for 19/20 when you do this (to avoid a feedback loop) you should be fine.

In my original note, I said that all channels including 23/24 are recorded PFL whether to the DAW or the the internal SD card. I meant this in the generic pre fader level sense, not specifically referring to the PFL buttons on the board. To avoid confusion about the "PFL" buttons themselves versus how the input signal records to the MTR (or sends signal via USB inbound to the DAW), Let me rephrase.

Channel strips 1 through 12 are recorded after the Gain, Low Cut button and onboard Compressor for that channel but before EQ and the fader.
Channel strips 13/14, 15/16, 17/18 and 19/20 are recorded after the Gain and Low Cut button but before EQ and the fader.
Channel strip 21/22 and Master Channel 23/24 are recorded at inbound line level so you are correct, the fader won't affect the signal when either of those channels is armed in the DAW. For the MTR, 21/22 will record at inbound line level when armed and 23/24 which is always "armed" in the MTR will also record at the inbound line level.

In my head, I picture the USB/MTR as analogous to an analog "tape-out" or "direct out" output jack.

Couple of notes to consider about the way the buttons on each individual/stereo grouped tracks work affect the MONITORING path of the individual tracks. Tracks that have the Main button selected will be sent to tracks 23/24. Tracks that have Sub selected will be sent to tracks 23/24 if the "MAIN" button is selected as well as to the Sub L and Sub R output jacks.

The PFL is a Pre Fader Level "solo" button which can be monitored via the Phones output jack and the Control L and Control R jacks on the board but it won't affect the sound coming to the Master output XLR jacks. This is by design because the PFL in this sense works like a "DJ's" Solo versus a Solo In Place Solo (Like we are all used to in our DAWs) Purpose of the PFL button is to check the sound level of individual tracks in more of a Front Of House scenario. So lets say you were using the Model 24 as a FOH mixer for a venue, the purpose is to be able to check the individual tracks incoming live signal, or recorded MTR track level without disrupting the signal path to the live PAs via the Master output XLR jacks. This is a side effect of the Model 16 and Model 24 being designed to be Front of House mixers that also have "some" old school Portastudio functionality. In my opinion, it's an annoying compromise in their design. Many of their nearest competitors have discrete PFL and a SIP style solo buttons.

In my own use case, I have a couple of different workflows that I use, including a crunky workflow using SUB L and R as well as both Monitor Auxs and the FX Aux to 5 of the channels of a Model 2 that I am using as a poor man's summing mixer. In my case, I have the Model 2 returning back into the board on (19/20) set to live with gain set to 0. In my case, if I only need those five channels I will use (19/20) as my print track just like you do. When I need to sum more than those 5 channels, I will use (23/24) as my print track. In all cases, just like you are doing I use 21/22 as my DAW monitoring channel for playback.

I have a video on youtube here

describing my own workflow.

I am so glad you got your workflow figured out for your needs.

Cheers,

Matt

 

[IanG]

Thank you much appreciated! I think I saw this video on a similar thread about using outboard gear with the model 24, and I've also made a thread for that as well so I will definitely keep it in handy.