MTR/USB Send Point Question

[Mark Delany]

Hi all, first week with the Model 12, really enjoying the unit!

I'm recording my tracks "Post EQ" in order to print my live EQ settings to the SD card recordings, so that when I transfer my files to my DAW the mix is preserved (minus fader and pan).

Something I can't figure out though is how the model 12 handles these recordings in MTR mode as to not "double up" on the comp/EQ settings in playback.

Case in point: I record a drum beat on channel 1, Post EQ with a bass boost of 2db. Now in MTR playback, my assumption is that with the EQ printed to track, I'd have to to reset the EQ in order to not double up on the bass boost. However, to my ears it doesn't sound as though it's being doubled up. In fact, when I reset the Bass, it sounds as though the boost was never printed to track in the first place.

Loading the files into my DAW confirms that the bass boost was indeed printed to track as expected - great!

Trying a similar experiment with the compressor engaged during Live record, it doesn't sound as though the compressor is doubling up in MTR playback.

If this is the case then it's great! So I don't have an issue really, I'm just interested to know if anyone can confirm if the model 12 is doing some sort of cool magic trick so you don't have to reset your mix when recording Post EQ. Or perhaps my ears aren't picking up on the doubled EQ - very possible!

Would be cool to get some clarification from anyone in the know.

Cheers!

 

[-mjk-]

If you looked at the block diagram you would see the answers to all your questions.

 

[Mark Delany]

I have looked. If you'd asked then you'd know that I didn't understand it.

 

[darthfader]

I'd have pointed to the block diagram too. Are you going to say what you didn't understand?

 

[Mark Delany]

I communicated what I don't understand in the original post - How does the model 12 avoid double processing in MTR playback mode with post EQ as the MTR/USB send point.

I realise a block diagram exists. I'm hoping someone who understands the block diagram can answer my question.

 

[darthfader]

Are you sure it does avoid double processing? I'd have applied extreme EQ so it would be blindingly obvious whether it had been applied twice.

Are you going to say what you didn't understand in the block diagram?

 

[Mark Delany]

"How did I find that so quickly? I downloaded the OM; opened it in a pdf reader; searched on "compressor"; and scanned each hit for relevant information until I found it in Section 9. Took less time than it did to compose and write this post."

Thanks mate - but at no point did I ask how to select the Compressor and EQ routing. Spend more time reading the post

 

[Mark Richards]

My responses on this web site are meant for anyone who may be looking for guidance on this or a similar or related issue, and not meant only for the OP.

For clarity's sake, I've removed my previous post; replacing it with this one, again reminding that I don't own one of these FOH mixers, but nevertheless try to provide some helpful information.

(1) The Block Diagram [edit]shows[edit] the SD Card MTR Track-to-Channel playback return is Channel pre-EQ and pre-Compression and the playback signal passes through both. (see images below)

(2) How the Channel signal routes initially to the SD card isn't as clear at first. The Block Diagram indicates a Channel signal "Rec data" path as MTR/USB Send Select, options for pre and post EQ/Compression, with Sends 1~10 going into the SD Card (see images below).

TASCAM chose to bury the explanatory details of this Menu driven "Rec data" signal flow on page 54 of the Owner Manual, in summary:

The Menu system gives the user the option of how to treat Channel EQ and Compression initially when recording the Channel signal to the SD Card Track. The OM page 54 text indicates engaging the Channel REC button activates the "REC data" signal path shown in the Block Diagram.​

Thanks mate - but at no point did I ask how to select the Compressor and EQ routing. Spend more time reading the post

OM page 54 ties directly to understanding the Block Diagram signal flow/activation of the "REC data" path.

If I had to go searching for the explanation to understand the Block Diagram signal flow fully, so might others. Thus, the comment in my original post on how to quick search the OM by downloading and using the pdf; and my reason for making the search in the first place.

I'm recording my tracks "Post EQ" in order to print my live EQ settings to the SD card recordings...I have looked [in the Block Diagram]...I didn't understand it...[is] the model 12 doing some sort of cool magic trick so you don't have to reset your mix when recording Post EQ...

So to your concern, that's what the Block Diagram shows about how the Channel/Track/Record and Track/Channel/Playback operations function regarding EQ and Compression.

If still unsure, as darthfader wrote in post #6, "applying extreme EQ would be blindingly obvious whether double processing occurs."

See y'all down the road.

Reference Images

 

[-mjk-]

Case in point: I record a drum beat on channel 1, Post EQ with a bass boost of 2db. Now in MTR playback, my assumption is that with the EQ printed to track, I'd have to to reset the EQ in order to not double up on the bass boost. However, to my ears it doesn't sound as though it's being doubled up. In fact, when I reset the Bass, it sounds as though the boost was never printed to track in the first place.

Loading the files into my DAW confirms that the bass boost was indeed printed to track as expected - great!

Trying a similar experiment with the compressor engaged during Live record, it doesn't sound as though the compressor is doubling up in MTR playback.

Trust your ears.

 

[Arjan P]

(1) The Block Diagram is clear.

Reading through this topic, I get the feeling this is the big misconception. NO, not everyone sees block diagrams as easy helpful drawings to grasp signal flow through a system.

And I can tell you from experience. To me a block diagram, system schematic or even wiring diagram is easy enough to navigate through. Only when I started teaching, I found out that what I effortlessly read is a visual jungle to others. So, I see the above as a bold statement - The block diagram is clear to some, not to all.

 

[-mjk-]

@Arjan P I think that Mark meant "point number 1 is clear" because he goes on to say that point #2 is not clear. At any rate he then went on to give a very thorough explanation.

That's not to say that your point isn't well taken.

 

[Mark Richards]

That's a good comment, Arjan. I've edited #1 to clarify what I meant to say, and added some pics from the block diagram. Thanks.

 

[Tahiche]

Just to clarify for noobs at bloc-diagrams as myself… There would be double processing.
The usb/mtr signal comes in before comp and eq so those would be applied again after recording the recording the track post-eq. I hope so…