quick question about drum rec...

[r3writed]

hi, i would like to know if u guys using the 20db pad when recording drums?
few days ago i had some drum recording but i didnt used it, i needed to rise the preamp pot just a bit, like on line 2-3 to get nice lvl, Well the drummer was not so good , so i needed some time to find the right lvls to not get clipping, but i thought if i dont use the pad i get less colour from preamp as it has low volume but higher input signal(if u know what i mean)

 

[captdan]

The -20 pad has nothing to do with 'color.' It's a means to prevent signal overload.
A compressor/limiter is also helpful taming transients and hot signals - particularly from performers who don't play very consistently.

However, if both of those options are necessary because a drummer is all over the map level wise, it's time to conduct a forcible clinic on studio technique.

CaptDan

 

[B2RPW]

I would suggest using the compressor on the mixer set as a type of brick wall limiter so that you don't get crazy spikes that distort the track. But I also wonder what kind of mics you are using and if its happening on all the drum mics if you are using a multi-mic setup. If you are using mics meant for drums into the mic input of the mixer and starting with the faders at 0 and the trim fully counter-clockwise, then you should be able to slowly raise the trim while the drummer is playing until you are getting a reasonable signal.

 

[captdan]

I would suggest using the compressor on the mixer set as a type of brick wall limiter so that you don't get crazy spikes that distort the track.

Unfortunately, that does nothing for audio signal pre-A/D. The DM's compressor/limiters only affect signal already in the digital domain - ie - for mixdown. Outboard compressors inserted between the preamp and A/D can only affect the tracking stage.

However, the rest of what you said is on the money - types of mikes (& placement), as well as optimum trim of the preamp pots. It's even better when the performer presents a consistent dynamic range to begin with.

CaptDan

 

[B2RPW]

I would suggest using the compressor on the mixer set as a type of brick wall limiter so that you don't get crazy spikes that distort the track.

Unfortunately, that does nothing for audio signal pre-A/D. The DM's compressor/limiters only affect signal already in the digital domain - ie - for mixdown. Outboard compressors inserted between the preamp and A/D can only affect the tracking stage.

However, the rest of what you said is on the money - types of mikes (& placement), as well as optimum trim of the preamp pots. It's even better when the performer presents a consistent dynamic range to begin with.

CaptDan

That is interesting. I know the comp is After the a/d and in the digital domain, But as long as its applied before it heads out to pt via the FireWire card, would it not serve the purpose of stopping the signal from clipping prior to being captured?

I envision the signal chain as mic>mixer mic input> trim>a/d converter> mixer compressor >mixer eq> bus> fw card >daw

Do I have it wrong?

 

[captdan]

I envision the signal chain as mic>mixer mic input> trim>a/d converter> mixer compressor >mixer eq> bus> fw card >daw

Do I have it wrong?

Yeah, not exactly right. It's: Mic>input/preamp/converter/etc etc.

There's an opportunity to clip at any gain juncture ; If the preamp is too hot and overloaded, it clips the A/D prior to conversion. Hence, a clipped signal is permanently distorted. That first gain stage is crucial for optimum quality - proper preamp adjustment - and/or - inserting a compressor (outboard) between the pre-amp and A/D. That way the signal is tamed prior to conversion.

With 24 bit, it's better to start with a lower signal (depending on source and dynamic range). A -12db to -18db signal can always be increased via fader, digital trim, onboard compression, etc. But an overloaded/clipped input is irrepairable after the fact.

CaptDan

 

[TascMan]

Just noticed both your signal chains were exactly the same, just worded differently (I think "preamp" and "trim" meant the same thing).

Anyway, as a drummer using this board, for the most part I am not using the DM's -20pads. The dynanic mics I use tyically have a lower output than, say, a condenser so the inputs are well controlled via the DM's trim pots on the pre.
That being said, I have been using SDCs on my overheads and I do perfer to use the pads that are built into the mics. I think they are -10 pads, so I haven't needed the pads on the board for them.
Another question would be if the -20 pads on the board are before or after the trim knob. I believe they are before, attenuting the mic input before it hits the trim and then goes to conversion.

 

[B2RPW]

Yes, you're right, I noticed that too. But the valuable point I got from capt dan's post is that you can clip the signal at the trIm pot before it gets to the a/d converters. Then no amount of board compression will help.

 

[TascMan]

Very True. You are still at the mercy of analog distortion from too much signal going into the pre, before the conversion, in which case, the pads are your friends.

 

[Arjan P]

Another question would be if the -20 pads on the board are before or after the trim knob. I believe they are before, attenuting the mic input before it hits the trim and then goes to conversion.

That's correct, pads are before trim.

 

[captdan]

Sorry for the confusion; the signal chains ARE the same, just a small terminology difference.

To clarify one point in my earlier post - re: 'digital trim.' I was referring to the adjustment in the lower left corner of the Module Setup Screen. That virtual 'trim pot' allows both boosting and attenuating signal at the module's outgoing gain stage. If, say, a bass EQ is boosted +8 db in the <>60hz range, that Setup trim adjustment can be attenuated to prevent distortion and keep the signal optimal to the stereo buss.

CaptDan