Signal routing problem between DM 4800 and MX 2424

[Ron E. Mudd]

Happy New Year to all you Yodas on the forum. I'm starting this new year with a plea for help. I feel like a second grader compared to the wealth of knowledge you guys possess. I have a DM 4800 synced to my MX 2424. The DM is reading TC from the MX and I can control the MX from the DM transport except for the ability to arm tracks from the DM (need help with that as well). I can't get signal to and from the MX. I've tried several different routings by picking up bits and pieces from other conversations and from what I can understand from the manual. Hours and hours of trying and failing. I'm running 24 channels of adat from the MX and have adat cards on slots 3 and 4. From the MX, channels 1-8 are going into slot 3 adat, channels 9-16 into slot 4 adat. and 17-24 into the onboard adat. Can either one of you MegaBrains please detail the signal routing in the DM that's necessary to get signal in and out through the adats? My previous board was a Mackie D8B and it worked very smoothly with the MX. The DM 4800 is a whole nother galaxy away from where I was with that. I've finished a couple of projects using the DM with Cubase but really need to get the MX into the mix. I would very much appreciate any help I can get from you guys to map the signal routing. Thanks in advance.

 

[TascMan]

Start with getting your signal to your MX. Assuming a mic is plugged into your DM CH1, and gain is properly set, (check your Mic Line switch just above the gain knob to make sure it is set to MIC 0) go to ALT/ROUTING/OUTPUT SLOT tab. Start on the right side of the screen and move POD4 to M/L, under "INPUT BYPASS". Now go to POD3 and select SLOT 3 Trk 1-8. Now use your arrow keys and move the line curser all the way down to "BATCH SETUP" so that it is high-lighted. Use your jog wheel and turn it once to the left then once to the right. It should now say M/L1-M/L8 in the BATCH SETUP Field. Hit ENTER.

I don't own an MX2424, but I would venture a guess that if your sample rate is the same, and the MX is made to slave it's sample rate off of the DM, (preferred to have the unit that is doing the A to D conversion to be the Master..in this case, the DM is converting the mic input to digital so it should be the SR Master) you should be seeing movement on the MX's CH1 meter when you talk into the mic. Adjust your gain to get a decent level.

If that works, then I will help with the MX outs back into the DM.

 

[TascMan]

After looking over the front panel of the 2424, I realize that the term "Master", as I was describing it, could be confusing. Under the SYNC button, your have several modes of Time Clock syncing. Whether or not your want your MX to be the TC Master is up to you. Time Clock would be used for referencing song position for things like mixer automation. SMPTE was a common version of this, as is MTC is now. Your DM is very capable of TC based automation, and is practically designed with MX2424 automation in mind.

But I was referring to the Sample Rate clock master. Two very different things. And page 4 of the MX manual is a disaster when trying to describe how the MX uses Time Code, by using terms like "word clock". Geesh! The reader is sure to be confused! Regardless, I am not sure if the MX would be able to detect incoming sample Rate clock info from your ADAT signal. It should, but I don't have one to try. So, I would find and hook up a 75Ohm cable with BNC terminals, one to the DM's Word Clock out to the MX's Word Clock In--Not the TIME CODE IN! That way, you know that the sample rates are synced and the DM is the Master, as long as you have "INTERNAL" checked on your DM project page. ALT/PROJECT/CLOCK tab. While there, check that your WORD phase IN and OUT are normal and your OUT Speed matches your DM's sample rate.

 

[TascMan]

After some further digging into the MX manual, it would be useful to go into the MX's menu, specifically page 002. Take a look at the Sample Reference choices here. Since you are using the ADAT digital expansion module to connect to the DM, and you want the DM to be your clock master, then you would want your Sample Reference set at DIG IN 1,2. If this is set to AUTOMATIC, then the MX is using it's own internal sample rate clock and that would be a problem.

Now look at page 003. Here is where your actual, current sample rate reference is being shown. After any changes from 002, you should now see DIG IN 1,2. That's a good thing.

 

[Ron E. Mudd]

Thanks, TascMan, for your quick reply. I did exactly as you suggested but still no signal in the MX. Instead of using a mic for channel 1, I'm using channels 1 and 2 for my Motif and the channel inputs are set to Line and on the Input tab of the Routing page all channels are set to M/L. I'm getting signal into the DM from the Motif but not in the MX. Further description of my setup: I have BNC from the OUT of a SyncGen Word Clock generator to Word Sync IN of the DM and another BNC OUT of the SyncGen to the Word Clock IN on the MX. For DM automation, I have RCA running from the Time Code OUT of the MX to the Time code IN of the DM. I also have a 9 pin running from the RS-422 port of the DM to the 9 pin Remote of the MX. I have transport control of the MX and can see the MX time on the DM meter bridge. The TC light is lit next to the time display. The Sample Lock light is lit on the MX but if I change the Sample Reference at 002 of the menu to Dig In 1,2 it looses the sample lock and the light blinks. So I think I need to keep it on Ext Wordclock to keep the sample lock. All three units are set to 44K sample rate. Please let me know if you require any more info about my setup to help determine the necessary routing to get signal in and out of the MX. Thank you so much for your time and assistance. You are much appreciated.

 

[captdan]

Quick suggestion: Temporarily exclude the SyncGen, and run sync from the DM instead.

See if that affects anything.

CaptDan

 

[Ron E. Mudd]

Hey CaptDan. Good to hear from you. I disconnected the SyncGen and ran the BNC from the Word Sync OUT on the DM to the Word Clock in on the MX. A message appeared on the DM that reads "Clock Info: Word... No Signal". On the MX the Sample Lock light began to blink indicating that there is no longer a lock. I went to the Project page on the DM and set the clock to Internal. No sample lock on the MX and no signal.

 

[captdan]

Have to investigate the obvious - bad BNC cable? Do you have another one to eliminate that possibility?

Second wild guess: some issue or setting on the MX; are you certain it's set to receive? Have you done a cold boot on all devices and tryed again?

CaptDan

 

[Ron E. Mudd]

Hey Capt. I don't have another BNC but both were sending signal. One from the SyncGen to the DM and one to the MX. Both machines recognized the Wordclock from the SyncGen. The MX is set to receive External Word and the Sample Lock light lets me know that it is sync'd with the clock source. Can't do a cold boot right now. I began exporting some of the wave files from the MX to my computer. They're some really big files so its taking forever. I can't shut the MX down until it's done exporting. I'll try the cold boot on both machines when its done. Thanks.

 

[Ron E. Mudd]

Hey Capt. I've done the cold boot on both machines and no change. Still no signal to or from the MX. Will you give me what the routing should look like on each tab of the Routing page. INPUT, OUTPUT, OUTPUT SLOTS. Although I've tried everything that has been suggested and a lot of experimentation, I think the problem has got to be in the routing set up (in my humble and much less informed opinion). I'm running 24 channels of adat from the MX and have adat cards on slots 3 and 4 in the DM. From the MX, channels 1-8 are going into slot 3 adat, channels 9-16 into slot 4 adat. and 17-24 into the onboard adat. Something else that I've noticed is that on the Alt/Digital page it shows the cards installed. Slot one is AD/DA card, slot 2 is TIDIF card, slot 3 and 4 are ADAT. On the Slot 1-2 tab it shows data in the Slot 1 and 2 In and OUT boxes. Slot 1 shows Word Length - 24 bit, Slot 2 shows Word Length with selectable 24, 20 and 16 bit. But on the Slot 3-4 tab there is only RX Mode - Normal for the IN box and TX Normal for the OUT box of Slot 3 and 4. It does show that 3 and 4 are adat cards but are they configured correctly? Thanks for all your help.

 

[captdan]

Caveat: I don't use ADAT, nor any other digital interface besides Firewire. I'll take a stab at this with that warning.

Let's say you want to assign ADAT/Slot3's 1st 4 tracks to Inputs 1-4 on the DM.
Hit: ROUTING:

1. Right side of screen - find SLOT3.

3. Left side of screen look at the first 8 slots, as represented by the indication in the center of screen: "1-16." (Pod#3 selects the input array - 1-16 -17-32, etc). Using shuttle wheel, on 'Input 1, dial thru choices 'till you see SLOT3-1 ("Slot3/ADAT, CHannel 1). Hit enter.

4. Select Fader #1, hit the Stereo Bus button on the buss panel, upper left side of console. Raise fader, run signal. You should see/hear output from MX reflected in the DM's Module/Fader 1.

5. Repeat Step 4 for the remaining 3 channels in sequential order.

See if that gets at least half of the problem solved.

CaptDan

 

[Ron E. Mudd]

Thanks, Capt. I'll have to try this tomorrow and get back to you. Thanks. I really appreciate it.

 

[Ron E. Mudd]

Hey Capt. I followed your exact instructions but no success. No signal back from the MX. Transport is working smoothly from the DM, meters on the MX shows activity on the recorded tracks, just can't get it back into the board. I have no idea what to try next. Thanks for your help, anyway. I appreciate your time and effort.

 

[TascMan]

So you are able to get a signal out of the DM and into the MX? (MX Meter activity) It's just the return routing we are stuck on now?

 

[Ron E. Mudd]

No, no signal out.

 

[TascMan]

You mentioned you have an ad/da card in Slot one. That's ADAT as well. So you have ADAT cards in Slots 1, 3 and 4 as well as onboard. Have you tried connecting only one ADAT card (SLOT1 Adat)? Also, have you tried to move a stereo signal only from the DM to the MX via the AES/EBU? It seems that if you have tried everything here, you should try to isolate a possible problem. I think you may have an issue with your MX ADAT board. If it turns out that the board is an issue, there is a new one on ebay for 75bucks.