Standalone Hardware Recording vs: DAW/Software Recording

[lastmonk]

@Arjan P Sry, for the oversight. Yes I see you are using the latest version of Cubase. Just curious do you keep all of the previous versions or still use all of the previous versions? I know in my own case I purchased every full version of Cubase and stopped at Version 8. When I look back, I realize I spent more than a few bucks on Cubase when I add up all of the versions. I'd have to throw in my Steinberg dongles in to the cost as well. I have four fully maxed out Mac Pros and one maxed out Mac book Pro. Its been amazing what I've had to do and spend to keep all of the VSTs, VSTi's, Installers, Patch updates, dongles, 32 bit-64bit-crossovers, etc,among those various versions of Cubase going and compatible, all the importing and exporting of projects with just enough minor variation to raise the ole eye-brow. When I think about the hundreds of hours, maybe thousands of hours over the years that I've put into Cubase ecosystem , I can't help but wonder how much more music and how much more time I would have had to hone my ability on my musical instruments if I had just fully committed to the Portastudio all dem years ago But there's no time like the present Cubase and the Daws for the most part are in my rear view mirror I've been baptized in the serenity and sanity of my Tascam Portastudios, and I've been working on Beethoven's Opus 27, No 2 in C# minor, and Rachmaninoff's Polichinelle in F-sharp minor, Op3. No. 4 and my chops have never been better

@Arjan P Yea mate, now that I see your setup in your signature, there is no doubt in my mind that you know absolutely what you're doing, and you're a first rate Cubase expert. There is something to be said about drinking the koolaid on either side of the street. You've clearly taken the plunge. You simultaneously have my admiration and sympathies I haven't had the chance to listen to your work yet , but I'm sure its very professionally done. And to be sure Cubase is a powerhouse of a DAW. You've made a big achievement there. The road to Cubase is paved with the bodies of many a mix-engineer hopefuls that just didn't have the perseverance

But I'm looking forward to the next new Tascam Portastudio and thinking very very seriously about putting all versions of Cubase that I own, their license keys, dongles, and my two CC121 Steingberg controllers on Ebay where they can find a home with a true believer I'm hoping that the next Portastudio will have:

• 1 or 2 HDMI outs for the Tascam Video Display

• 16 to 24 combo XLR Inputs

• Support for Surround Mixes (at least 5.1)

• Support for Naming of the 24/32 Digital Channels that can be saved with each song

• Midi

Also I would dig it if the new Tascam Portastudio came out in different colors, the classic black of the current DP 24/32, and maybe a nice deep burgundy, or navy blue. One more head phone jack would be useful too. Maybe even offer tight integration between the Tascam Model 12, 16, and 24. Maybe direct USB integration, and Sync between the two. I'd go for that. And I'd use the proceeds from my Cubase Ebay sales to help pay for the new rig

 

[-mjk-]

@lastmonk I like the colors on the original DP-32.

 

[lastmonk]

Yea, it did have some different highlighting. You're right, they could bring that back.

Also the Tascam Model 12 has a nice carrying bag:

https://tascam.com/us/support/news/6218

It would be nice to get a carrying bag for the current DP 24/32 and make it a stock option for any new Portastudios coming down the pike

 

[BazzBass]

miss this did you?

Nashville-based Gibson filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in May 2018 with roughly $500 million in debt

 

[-mjk-]

In the world of finance, 3 years is a lifetime. In the meantime Gibson and Epiphone have released their best guitars in decades.

 

[Freebird]

Have been following this discussion with great interest! Great point's from everyone!

But I have to say... I really enjoyed @lastmonk and his point of view of things about what "to come - or not to come" in the future!

Personally I have a Model 24 and not a DP-24/32... so my experience's comes from a little different perspective since the "Model Series" are NOT 100% comparable to the DP-Series abilities & drawbacks.

Furhermore... I am NOT totally disregarding the use of "DAW'S" per say. To me the "2 things" CAN work together. Although I have to agree with @lastmonk about all those constantly irritating "fekkin" updates and incompatibilities that comes with using a computer/daw AND all those costly plugins that needs constant updates and so forth!

Therefore... below i submit a link to a real great Utube video that in a humorous way, sort of summons up my own point of view... ENJOY!

Mostly I use a computer to program my "analogue sounding" drums in Superior Drummer 3, and then transfer those Wav-files to Model 24 to be used as both a "click-track" and "backing-track" to record my guitars, keyboards, vocals and so forth.

In the mid-80's I bought a Roland 707 "drum machine" that I used for many years. But the "digital" and to me "unnatural" sound of "drum-machines" does NOT appeal to me these days when you can get "REAL" drum sounds from analogue recorded drums.

Anyone up for buying a fully functioning Roland 707...?

About the question at hand... the future of "Portastudios"...

Well... who can tell? To me there is definitely a future for those kind of products going forward into the future. The more advanced features you can build into a SINGLE PHYSICALLY unit without the hassle of constant updates (except firmware updates - which is a COOL SUMMER BREEZE compared to Windows & Software updates)... Not to mentioning all these constant new increasing payments year after years after years..................................... etc.

The better the TRUE MUSICIAN who wants to learn & play his or hers "physical" instruments to the fullest ends up!

And in the end... GREATER MUSIC and FEELINGS is coming out to the listeners ears and hearts! Making this world a much better place to live in!

 

[Arjan P]

Although I have to agree with @@lastmonk about all those constantly irritating "fekkin" updates and incompatibilities that comes with using a computer/daw AND all those costly plugins that needs constant updates and so forth!

OK, I'll say it once more and then I shut up: If you want to do a fair comparison between all-in-one hardware recorders and a DAW, then
1. Freeze the DAW: Build it, install software on it and then disconnect it from any network and use it as a standalone machine, just like the beloved Portastudio.
2. Make sure the software you buy already has all the plugins you need (most of them already have tons included).

Voilá! No irritating updates, incompatibilities or whatever, even on Mac. Learn the tool you use and get creative!

 

[Freebird]

He... agree totally with you @Arjan P

Actually that's what I have done over all these years. I have kept my "current system out of the loop" so to say... as long as I have could... NO internet... NO updates and so forth. Works well for a time...

BUT sooner or later you/I... HAVE to update something to keep the system running smoothly. Mostly it's the fekkin' Windows that mess things up.

Mind you... I'ts not only about "software"... it's also about... hardware... chipset, audio-cards/interfaces, memory changes, BIOS and so forth... it's all a never ending fekkin' mess if you ask me!

Sure... maybe you can stay "afloat" for some years at a time by exclusively using DAW's/Windows/Mac's etc. and disregard all the updates during that time. But sooner or later you HAVE to UPGRADE in some sort/fashion.

How long can you stay "afloat"... For how many years? Hard to tell to be honest.

I know that the same could be said of "PHYSICALLY WRITTEN INTO STONE" Portastudios or other solutions that solely depend on what is "programmed into them" from the beginning.

Absolutely there IS an "END DATE" of those to!

But practically speaking... that END DATE doesn't occur until you yourself "call it's a quite"... or what they call it on "the other side of the pond" = The Atlantic Ocean.

But who dies first... the "DAW-solution" OR the "Hardware Solution"?

Well... you're guess is as good as mine!

 

[Arjan P]

BUT sooner or later you/I... HAVE to update something to keep the system running smoothly. Mostly it's the fekkin' Windows that mess things up.

My whole point is that you don't. I have an old Eee PC netbook from 2009 that I use in the band to show lyrics and chords on a bigger monitor. It has Windows XP on it, and it hasn't been connected to any network for more than 8 years. No issues, and it keeps doing what it needs to do.

 

[Freebird]

Good for you @Arjan P

But those 2 POSITIVE abilities does not take into consideration ALL the the other hundreds of NEGATIVE drawbacks I mentioned above in my previous post.

To be honest... I'm having a really hard time to understand all these "negative/hateful" comments/opinions AGAINST HARDWARE usage/users expressed on this forum!?

I mean..."The Tascam Products" are supposed to be a "COMPLIMENT" to the "DAW"...?

OR a "STANDALONE TOOL" to accomplice your musical dreams!?

OR am I missing something here???

Are we supposed to disregard the Tascam products...

And solely depend on Windows/Mac/DAW interface/drivers update & so forth???

Just asking... sort of...

Like Frank Zappa said.... "The mind is like a parachute... It doesn't work unless it's open!"

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Hey let’s easy does it, keep the discourse nice and mellow.,. and on point.

Everyone here has same good intentions and interests. We can learn a lot from hearing a range of different points of view.

 

[Freebird]

@JSchmo_Bass... I could not agree with you more!

 

[lastmonk]

@Freebird I really liked that video It does sum up it pretty good.

Some of the guys that are using the DAWs I think @Arjan P is one of those guys. he does so for a good reason. I think he's probably more of a professional mix engineer type.

But for just regular musicians the DAW can take you completely out of the musical metaphor, It can take you away from the fun, practicing to learn the entire song without making lots of mistakes, studying your chords, or scales, working on your technique or becoming a better musician. The Portastudio is mostly about capturing your music, or a reasonable performance, with minor or no errors. TBH the DAW is mostly more for Technicians, and the Portastudio is more for Musicians.

A Daw will let you construct, build, and engineer your way to a good song. The Tascam is about capturing a good musical performance to start out with. Sure auto-punch can be used on a Tascam to correct mistakes, but notice Tascam has a rehearsal button Rehearse that's a word you rarely hear in discussions involving DAW recording.

Singer/Songwriters, guitarists, violin players, sax players,trumpet players, clarinet players, piano players, etc who want to just record , overdub, share, or stream their music they are much better served by a Portastudio than a DAW.

On the other hand Mix/Master engineers are better served by a DAW

Sometimes, people have to wear multiple hats, musician, producer, sound engineer,etc.

But at some point, you've got to choose. Something is going to suffer. To be proficient at Cubase + something like the Tascam DM 3200 requires a considerable amount of knowledge and skill. To keep up with each new feature set of each new version of something like Cubase is an ongoing thing. Being a producer, or arranger is an entirely different set of skills with their own set of challenges, and being a musician, is a whole different bag entirely. There are only so many hours in a day, at some point you have to choose. If not, you end up being a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, mediocre here and there and ok with this or that.

The portastudio complements what a musician does. A portastudio can be in a rehearsal hall, class room, or school gymnasium, auditorium, in the garage, or in the practice room. Virtually anywhere you play or practice your instrument you can have a portastudio (hence the prefix porta).
This is not the case for the Computer + Mixing Desk + Audio Interface + Monitor + DAW setup.

Some folks cobble together music totally on a DAW pointing & clicking the chords, scales, and beats , dragging and dropping clips, and samples until they've created a grammy winning song. For example of how to use Cubase to produce a song with little or no musical skill check out this:

The idea of multiple takes, or rehearsing, or practicing, or memorizing the complete song, or learning to read charts, or music, or singing in tune, or capturing a once in a life time performance , or mastering an instrument is just not what the DAW is all about

I mean the names say it all. Cubase and Protools are Digital Audio Workstations and they have a workstation metaphor and user interface. The Tascam Portastudio is Portable Recording Studio. It has the metaphor and user interface of the basic, bread-n-butter recording studio. The Tascam Portastudio lets you bring the concept of a recording studio to where ever you are playing, performing, or practicing your music. On the other hand The Digital Audio Workstation has the metaphor of well; a Computer Workstation where you can edit and work with Digital Audio , Midi and Video files. Its not the kind of place where you would capture a live violin concerto. or record your twins singing happy birthday to each other.

That's why there has to be a new Portastudio in the pipe line, because the Portastudio and DAW really are addressing difference Use Cases. Sure there is some overlap here and there. But mostly they are playing to two different crowds The average musician, singer/songwriter is well served by the Portastudio concept

 

[Arjan P]

BTW, I certainly see the ease of use and hands-on appeal of the Portastudios, but IMO they have limitations that a DAW (and certainly Cubase Pro) has not. I went from an Akai DPS-16 to DAW so I know the benefits of either.

That's me earlier in the topic. I merely replied because there are things said against the use of DAWs that simply are not true. I have nothing against Portastudios of any brand or their users - I was one of them and they are lots of fun. Just don't come saying that using a DAW is equal to uninspired non-creative music making and a hardware all-in-one is equal to creative inspirational music making. I've heard awful music from both - and great music from both.

 

[BazzBass]

yeah it's fine to say don't connect your music puter to the net. IF you can afford two computers. I bought a new laptop for recording only, but now, of course, my daily laptop is going down like the Titanic, so, that new laptop will have to be my daily puter.

Now, let's talk facts, why spend all that money and effort in a DAW , spending hours on a recording, when most people will download a 128kbps MP3 file and listen thru crap earbuds or worse, a mono Bluetooth speaker. I mean, why bother making a pristine recording at all?

 

[lastmonk]

@Arjan P Amen, I have heard masterpieces produced in DAW world, and I have definitely heard trash produced on a portastudio. I'm sure I produced some trash myself on my own portastudio

And yes you certainly can have bonafide creative musicians that have become proficient and even efficient and productive using a DAW. No disagreement there.

But as a matter of course, in the average case of the average singer/songwriter/musician that needs to record, share, or stream their music in 2021 the Portastudio and similar technologies are simply the easiest and most natural way to accomplish those goals. If you could imagine looking at Cubase 11 as a person seeing a DAW for the first time, and having no idea what a DAW is and the effort it would take to record your very first overdub, you would see how incredibly daunting Cubase is for the uninitiated. Its not that the portastudio wouldn't also present a challenge. But given a person who has never seen a portastudio and a person who has never seen a DAW and given the challenge of who could record an overdub of a three part row-row-row your boat rendition first, the poor person with Cubase would lose every time. Cubase is just harder because it literally has hundreds and hundreds of clickable, draggable, things that are not intuitive. I'm looking at a version of Cubase as I type this, and I just looked and I don't even see the word record in the top level of menus at all. I don't see the word play in the top level of menus. Whereas the portastudio (at least) does have the word record, and play on its front panel. Cubase requires hardware of some kind, and a typically a audio interface, getting all that talking for the uninitiated can be interesting for a total newbie.


Now that being said, once you start worrying about mass distribution, or broadcast quality, or professional mastering and mixing, scoring for films, cable shows, video games, that's another story altogether. Getting your music to some professional that has The DAW + Digital Mixer is the best course of action. And the easiest workflow in that situation is for the singer/songwriter/musician to get their stems to a professional sound engineer, mix engineer, master engineer. Which is just a matter of exporting the stems and sending them along via e-mail, google drive, fedx, UPS, etc. Let the civilians use portastudios and pocketstudios, and when necessary let them send their stems to professionals who use the DAW + Digital Mixer. That way everybody is truly more productive. The money that the civilians would save from not playing the DAW hustle would be more than enough to pay the Sound Engineer folks and the Mastering Engineers. And the trauma and wasted time that the Sound/Master Engineers would avoid by not having to decode, and untangle civilian's Protools or Cubase project files would streamline and thus make the entire effort more enjoyable and profitable. Everybody wins

@BazzBass exactly!! They're listening through $3 earbuds from Family Dollar with a playlist of a mishmash of .mp3 files gotten from who knows where , or they're listening through a set of $17 bluetooth speakers that are partly clogged up from vaping. All the Cubase and plugins in the world ain't gonna fix that Sh#t.

 

[Freebird]

@lastmonk Very educational video you submitted above! A DAW is a MUST if you don't use physical instruments at all (except maybe for a midi-keyboard or a digital drum-pad).

To "cut & paste" pre-produced loops in a DAW can be fun... I guess?
But it's definitely not how I would go about creating my own music.
To "cut & paste" loops on a DP-machine or a Model Series Mixer just doesn't do it, since they are made for "real world" analogue instruments.

With that said... of course a DAW can work with physical instruments to. I've done it myself for some years now. But a Portastudio & Model Series Mixer let's you focus on your instruments and your musicianship... and not getting "bogged down" with computer hassles, updates and steep learning curves.

He... and with THAT said... I DO use DAW's (Presonus Studio One & Mixbus). But only AFTER I have recorded everything on my Model 24. Then I import the wav's and start mixing/mastering on my computer.

I also use a computer for Superior Drummer 3 where I arrange the drum patterns for every song I write. Then I record/transfer the drums wav-files to Model 24 and use it as a backing track for recording guitars, bass, keyboard etc. Who needs a "click-track" when you can have real analogue sounding drums making the groove!

So... best of both worlds I guess.
But it's SO nice to be able to shut the computer down when it's time for musical inspiration, practising and honing your skills on the instruments you play. FREEDOM!!

 

[Arjan P]

yeah it's fine to say don't connect your music puter to the net. IF you can afford two computers. I bought a new laptop for recording only, but now, of course, my daily laptop is going down like the Titanic, so, that new laptop will have to be my daily puter.

Well, if your laptop breaks down, you also can't switch to a Portastudio to become your new browser and word processor, so that's not really a valid argument. It only shows the versatility of a laptop.

Now, let's talk facts, why spend all that money and effort in a DAW , spending hours on a recording, when most people will download a 128kbps MP3 file and listen thru crap earbuds or worse, a mono Bluetooth speaker. I mean, why bother making a pristine recording at all?

Are you saying Portastudios don't deliver pristine recordings? I use the same resolution on my DAW that Portastudios have, I don't see 96k or higher necessary for the type of music I record. So why spend money and effort on a Portastudio could be asked in the same way..

Or is it a more philosophical question? Like, why bother making music at all, with so much already there from Bach to Hendrix to Steely Dan to Massive Attack to Prince and you name it?

 

[lastmonk]

@Freebird , for sure, its all personal choice and what inspires you to create music its all good.

For me personally, I don't record what I couldn't play live. And by the time I record it, its already worked out, arranged, orchestrated with dynamics, and song form. So by and large the Tascam Portastudio is used to capture my performance and music not create it

But there are DAW players and musicians out there. Who use the keyboard, touchpad, and mouse as their interface to play and perform in the DAW. There is a whole new generation of DAW players, who are DAW virtuosos. Who compose, arrange, and produce and perform their music using menus, sliders, check boxes, radio buttons, and Drag-N-Drop. They're able to take clips and samples, and VSTs and in Lego fashion construct legitimate music. For this class of musician, the DAW is the instrument. Its not used to capture a performance, its used to create and produce the performance. And that's kewl, the world could always use more good music, no matter how its arrived at

And invariably there will be musicians who enjoy combining the two, more power to them.

I'm just not one of those. In my opinion these DAWs have gotten to be fat, bloated, overcomplicated, over featured, over priced, intrusive, demanding, distraction and diversions. The companies that make them are required to add new features and put something new out every 18 months or so in order to survive. Whether the new features are truly needed or not. And those that don't take that approach, are switching to a subscription model, so they can charge in some regular interval implementing a pay as you play model.


The basic feature set of the Portastudio remains largely stable over all these years and models. Because provides the real set of features necessary to capture a performance, or musical composition. But OMG I can't even imagine what will be in Cubase 18? and Protools is naming its versions by year now right. Isn't it like Protools 2020.5 or something like that. So I shudder to picture how many features Protools 2028.7 will have or how complicated it will be by then. Meanwhile the new Portastudio will likely have its same basic feature set. Maybe for a few new features it may evolve to have:

• 1 or 2 HDMI outs for the Tascam Video Display

• 16 to 24 combo XLR Inputs

• Support for Surround Mixes (at least 5.1)

• Support for Naming of Tracks that can be saved with each song

• Midi
• 5 inch Color LCD Screen
• 2 Send & Return jacks

But none of those features would complicate or change the Portastudio interface very much. They would be more or less addressing deficiencies and would actually make the Portastudio even easier to use But the DAW will never be finished By 2030 DAWs will probably have Virtual Reality, Voice Commands, Full blown on board Artificial Intelligence Automation that can fully compose, create, arrange, mix, and master a song while the DAW player does something else useful (like find more clips samples) . I have no doubt that by then there will be a whole new set of job descriptions all centered around the DAW. We will probably be able to export the finished DAW product straight from the DAW to Netflix or Hulu

 

[Felonious Punk]

Personally, I keep mine hooked together 24/7 and use them as a team. Both via USB and an input cable from the Tascam to my interface and an output from my interface back to my PortaStudio. Best of both worlds...

Why isn't anyone asking for VST support for the PortaStudio?

My conclusion...I feel strongly both ways.

FP