Stereo faders?

[Postecutioner]

A semi-newbie question,
I've read the manual and it says that you can't use two inputs into a stereo channel. What's the use of a stereo fader taking up two channels, if I can't use a stereo source as an input?

Say I used the stereo pair outs on my MX61 synth, it would seem useful to be able to use two inputs to a stereo fader, to get the same stereo separation that I get when I go into my interface, and monitors. Also, if I wanted to use an outboard multi processor, like an Ensoniq DP2, and want to have a dry signal in 13, and totally wet, short delay in 14, for a fat guitar doubling, that doesn't sound possible according to the manual? Or am I just missing something simple like maybe the TRS ins become stereo inputs when a stereo fader is the track(s) you choose to record to? If so, that clears up a lot. But if not, it seems like calling them STEREO FADERS, and taking two channels, is not quite the truth about how these channels work.

Could someone tell me please where I'm going wrong, or is this just another limitation of the DP24, like not being able to use onboard effects in mixdown, or more than one dynamic at a time? If I use my two DP2 multi effect units, can I use it's compressors, limiters, gates, etc at any point of the recording process. I like to compress some things in mixdown, with outboard compression is that possible? I bought David Wills video, but it doesn't go very deep into much more than the basic functions, and not anything about the use of outboard effects. I know that's a lot to ask, but I do know a bit of old school, knob and fader, analog tape recording! But I'm a newbie in this digital age.

I like to say, "I'm an analog man, lost in a sea of 1's, and 0's!!!

Peace to you, and all you love, The Postecutioner "Keith"

 

[Postecutioner]

I use several forums, and I know the post above is long, but anyone who has a reasonable amount of experience with this device should be able to answer the questions. It's long because I wanted to be specific. I've had my DP for a year, but got very ill, and am just getting started trying to use it, and need to know about the paired "Stereo" faders. Help would be greatly appreciated.

Peace, Keith C

 

[Roundhill]

Any stereo source can be assigned to a stereo channel. Two independent mono sources cannot be used on a stereo channel. What you are describing will work.

 

[Dennis FMRJE]

Ok Postecutioner, think of this way: tracks 1 to 12, (lets not think of the others 13-24). With track 1 input the left output of any device, with track 2 input the right output of any device; now pan track 1 hard left, pan track 2 hard right, now when you listen you are hearing an stereo image of device. Keep in mind each input on a track/channel into a DP24 can panned Center, Left or Right. Another thing is look at the track assignment screen to see how the input (1 to 8) is aligned with the designated track (1-12), (13-24)

 

[Postecutioner]

Thanks Roundhill, and Dennis. So Roundhill, you're saying that a 2 mono to TRS into any input will allow me to get the wet on one side, and dry on the other? And I understand channel assignment, panning, etc, I'm just trying to send a stereo source to one of the stereo channel pairs, and be able to pan that stereo source . Thanks guys

Peace, Keith

 

[Roundhill]

The DP-24 stereo channels are already panned hard left/right you just need to assign the inputs to these channels. For instance use inputs 1 & 2 and assign them to one of the stereo channels then engage the record button so you can hear it. As for one side wet and the other dry, if your DP2 allows it then it should not be a problem. Also this will work fine with TS cables, no need for TRS cables. I don't think you can use any combo of input channels, for example 2 & 3 may not work. The DP24 will visually show what input channels are compatible when assigning stereo tracks.

 

[Rand782]

Hey, Postexec, Rand here and I hope I can help some. I've been away from my system, a Neo, for a while and am just getting things back together and rewired, but this is fairly basic and I think I can help you out. I/O is something I'm sure the DP24 and Neo2488 share. When you closed your last post with: "you're saying that a 2 mono to TRS into any input will allow me to get the wet on one side, and dry on the other?" You aren't referring to a "TRS" as a "stereo" plug I hope, you know, running two mono line outs into a stereo "TRS" plug? Joking.

OK, remember, even the stereo pairs of channels, or faders (don't know about the DP24, on the Neo you have two that you must pair up in order to run the pair on a single fader) have two distinct balanced input jacks; in other words, there are no stereo jacks that will provide two distinct channels when fed a trs. If you run a stereo device into the machine, and all that device has is a single cord with a trs plug on it, and the device is definately stereo, you need to get an adapter that splits the trs (stereo) plug into two ts plugs labeled tip and ring. Plug the "tip" into the right, or 2nd side of the stereo pair and the "ring" into the other. That will give you a stereo pair that you can process separately.

As far as outboard effects, and I have and use a lot of them. I'm just old and set in my ways, but I like my analog outboard gear, and I like mixing on a physical recorder like my neo as opposed to on the PC. I just can't get into working on a DAW like Cubase, and if I can't get into it, then why do it? I've made a lot of great recordings with all this crap. Anyway, the way I do the wet/dry thing on the NEO, and I hope some of it is the same, I go into the send menu after assigning the two tracks and (on the neo) you'll see LOOP, EFF 1, and EFF 2. EFF 1&2 are your outboard or "send" channels. If you are working with a stereo track and you want to send both channels out to a stereo processor, you can use EFF 1 & 2 as a stereo left & right. But for what you want to do, if you want, say the left channel 100% wet and the other left alone, send that channel out pre fader, set 100% on both level & master, drop the fader on that channel and raise the fader on the channel you've assigned to be the return. Make sure the return channel is recording! If you like what you hear and are a bit OCD, you might want to take that "wet" track you just recorded, create a "virtual" track and assign it to the left channel of that pair you're working with, and all is neat and tidy.

Again, we work on two different machines, but hopefully I was able to shed a bit of light on your project. If I can clarify something or provide more information, let me know. I'll try to keep an eye on this thread. Take care and good luck.

 

[joslenior]

Maybe this helps. If this is not what you were looking for then just ignore it: when assigning inputs to stereo tracks there are defined combinations of inputs that can be used. I enclosed a screenshot from the DP32SD manual.



The inputs are mono inputs. Therefore you have to assign two inputs to a stereo track.
Beware that on stereo tracks the pan pot acts as a balance control.

Rgrds,

Jos

 

[Postecutioner]

Thanks A LOT guys, I just wasn't getting the semantics of how it's worded in the manual. I was reading it as you could not use 2 inputs to a stereo pair. It was all due to the NOTE on page 42, under Assigning to a stereo track,( You can assign a single input source to multiple tracks.....
However you cannot assign multiple input sources to the same track.).
My bad, been on corticosteroids, and I think they were clouding my brain, (it's cloudy enough already, LOL?). I was somehow forgetting that a stereo fader IS TWO CHANNELS, just one fader, and it was a really rookie mistake that at 53, and 5 records, and 30+ years as a musician/ soundman, I should have known instinctively. Even though I just read it wrong, and totally get that now, there are several valuable pieces of information in all of your posts, and I really appreciate your help, and support. It's been a hard year due to illness, and I've struggled not to sell some of the really great gear I've worked so hard to collect, so now that I'm getting better, I'm ready to lay down some serious tracks, and I'm so happy to have the help.

Peace, and happiness to all, Keith

 

[joslenior]

Glad your health is getting better. I'm very happy with members on the forum with lots of knowledge and experience, and your experience will be of great benefit: I need advice and guidance every now and then.....

Grtz,

Jos

 

[Postecutioner]

Thanks Jos, nice to meet you! I signed up for this forum as soon as I got my DP24, having had an old 244 back in the '80s, and wanting to get back into recording, I opted for the DP as opposed to going the DAW route because ALL of the studio work I'd done, was before things went really digital. I got away from music just as DAT was gaining popularity, so knobs, and faders looked like something I'd slide right into, but got sick, and have only turned the DP on to go through the menus while perusing the manual. But this is a nice, friendly forum unlike some that seem like a competition more than a way to help each other out, and I like that alot. Thanks to all who respond, hopefully I'll be able to pass a bit of my limited knowledge along if I see something I know well, and I'm sure I'll ask more the deeper into, the process I go!

Thx!!!! Keith C

 

[BobV55]

Glad you got your reply, Keith - I have an outboard Peavey 8 channel mixer with the drums (Alesis DM-10 kit) and 2 keyboards plugged in. I take the stereo out from that mixer into inputs C and D on the DP-24, and assign those inputs into whichever stereo pair I want to use. The outboard mixer adds a lot of flexibility in terms of fine tuning the signal (trim, basic EQ, etc.), and prevents endless cord swapping at the DP-24. More than worth the $99 or so cost (Peavey PV 8).

 

[Postecutioner]

Thanks BobV55, I have been thinking about getting a small mixer, that's definitely affordable.

Peace, KeithC

 

[BobV55]

It just made sense to me...the mixer has 2 stereo keyboards, the outs from the drum kit (Alesis DM-10), and the outs from the drum machine (Alesis SR-18) in it (drummer isn't always available, and I hate the banging bottle sound of the metronome in the DP-24, so I cook up a quick click track on the SR-18 when I need it). This eliminates cable swapping, each input has been set for a good level and a very slight EQ tweak, which makes managing those instruments very easy at the desk. Given that my production team consists of me, myself, and I, we'll take any advantage we can get.

 

[Postecutioner]

I with you on the me, myself, and I. I just wish I could find an inexpensive, and quick way to get real drum sounds, without making MIDI maps. I'd be much further along. I haven't tried any of the plug in kits like BFD, or Slate, and MIDI is soooo time consumimg. You'd think that by now they'd make a drum machine that actually sounds like real drums, and is simple to program. I wanted to do my best to stay away from DAWs, but it looks like I'm gonna have to use one for drum tracks, unless someone knows another way to sequence the drum sounds on my Yamaha MX61 synth. Great drum sounds, no sequencer unless I MIDI map them in Cubase, UGHHHH!

I don't want anyone but me on my next record! Keith C

 

[BobV55]

Not inexpensive, but good sound and extremely simple to use - have a look at Beat Buddy. If this had come along before I bought my SR-18, I wouldn't have the SR-18 at all. I got in on the kickstarter campaign early enough to save a lot, and it's my go-to for when I'm working on something new, and I want more than just a click track to work against. I've put down tracks with it, and sent them to my drummer to give him the idea of what I'm looking for, and he uses that as a foundation to build his tracks on. Makes it easy for a non drummer to communicate an idea to a real drummer!

 

[Postecutioner]

Yeah, been seeing that on Facebook for months, and it would be good for ideas, but I really want to be able to put down the entire drum track, with all the fills, and time signature changes, so I'm probably going to buy Slste Stevens middle cost program. It is a lot of bang for $99.00, I just hate DAWs, but only because my time is limited, and the learning curve is so steep for an old analog knob and fader guy! But that beat buddy sure looks cool!!

Peace, off to the salt mines, Keith

 

[BobV55]

Knobs and Faders on Tascams have been my path, and why I never used a DAW either. We had a 244 4 track cassette Portastudio in the '80's, I had the 688 Midistudio in the late '90's, had a Pocketstudio 5 somewhere along the line, then I got the 2488 when it first came out (at the cost of about 3 of the new DP-32SD units), and currently using the DP-24....and they all have faders and knobs on them!

 

[Postecutioner]

Yep, got my start on a 244, then graduated to doing live sound, and learning to work on a Teac 16 track 2" tape machine in a proper studio, quit playing for over a decade, and got back into it about 4 years ago I went tbrough a midlife second love affair wirh Pink Floyd, and went nuts buying a complete David Gilmour rig to start, a handcrafted 69 Strat replica that is by far better than any Fender I've ever played, and though I never used effects in almost 30 years of playing, I have a huge board full of boutique, numbered, and signed pedals, one offs, all with certificates , including a Big Muff clone that is #1 of 15 made by British builder Stu Castledine. Then a little over a year ago, I bought a DP24, a few good mics, new computer, my MX61 synth, and my old bandmate having gone totally DAW, sold me 2 Ensoniq DP 2 multi effect rack units, with studio quality effects, a really nice switchable patch bay, a 4 channel compressor/limiter, and a rack for that stuff, and my Scarlett 18i20 that I use for better preamps, and the rack has a mixer platform on top that the DP fits perfectly. So, as it's on casters, it's a little rolling studio!!! Neat set up, that I've yet to record a single song because of an illness I've just gotten over. I'm definitely ready to start tracking, now all I need is a space that's better than my bedroom, which I've found impossible to use as a studio. Just need to save some money, or find a really cheap share space. I thought about selling one of my guitars, but because they're all collectables, I will wait until I can no longer play, and then sell them as part of my retirement fund, haha!!!

Peace, Keith

 

[BobV55]

Sounds like a sweet rig, and I have to echo your Floyd/Gilmour sentiments...my friends tell me they hear a LOT of that influence in my writing. As a disclaimer, I can't play like David does - I'm primarily a bassist, who moonlights on the skinny six - but I definitely have that influence when I write. My space is in our basement, which is somewhat small (basement is divided in half, one side finished, the other not), so I make use of vertical space by placing my small tube amps on shelves on the wall. Here are some views of the setup in various stages, the newest at the bottom when I installed the JBL monitors last year. My friends and I are getting ready to go back to work next month after the brutal winter we've just had, so I'm going through gear checkouts to get everything ready for the upcoming sessions.