Stereo file too low

Discussion in 'Model 24' started by Marcel, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. Marcel

    Marcel New Member

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    Anyone have this issue?
    when I export the tracks 23&24 to a music file and pop it into my computer to play i can barely hear it.
    I have to then dump it into Audacity or something to normalize it and then it is still very low...
  2. Marcel

    Marcel New Member

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    i guess I should add, yes I know about gain staging
  3. JBL822

    JBL822 New Member

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    Yes, I see that also. I record at a decent level according to the level meters on the Model 24, But whenever I mixdown and export to my computer and open the file , it shows the level down as low as -24db. I then have to do what you do and import into a sound editor and normalize to get a decent level
  4. -mjk-

    -mjk- Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't use a Model 24, but every mix master I've ever done requires Mastering to get it where it needs to be.
  5. Mark Richards

    Mark Richards Well-Known Member

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    Also don't own a Model 24. But this issue pops up regularly in the DP-24/32 forum.

    Record a steady tone at -12dBFS on your Model 24. Port the result to your computer.

    If the computer shows the same level, it's your recording techniques.

    If the computer shows something less, then it could be any number of reasons...too many to speculate about...or guess at.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  6. Matthew Fogel

    Matthew Fogel Member

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    @marcel.9739 that's by design. The Line on the display and on the LEDs for 0 is actually -12 db. This represents where the analog components just start to breakup (giving a bit of warmth) but the digital recording still has 12 db of headroom to prevent clipping. This is on purpose so that you can mix in an analog workflow without digitally clipping the WAV files. I find that the noise floor of the micpre's (-124) is so quiet that I can just normalize the wave files once I'm in Reaper and then start my digital mixing workflow. Also, unlike on a Tascam Portastudio which is a hardware based DAW, where an export is analogous to "bouncing tracks" in a software DAW, in order to get a complete mixdown of your session to tracks 23/24 or to export a Stereo wav file, you first need to rewind to the beginning of your session, set your levels and EQ positions for each track (I just audition this using play) and then when you are happy with your mix, hit record without arming any of the tracks. You will then have to record all the way through the song/session. (If you want any automation of levels during your recording, you will have to literally ride the faders during mixdown like they did back in the day.) This will create a new mixdown on tracks 23/24 that you can then export using the Export to Stereo or just copying the tracks 23/24 for final mastering in DAW.
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  7. Mark Richards

    Mark Richards Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the Level Diagram in the Model 24 OM, it seems that the digital signal going to the SD card (the MTR) is actually almost -20 dBFS; while the signal going to the mixer's stereo meters and main outputs remain in the analog domain at a nominal 0 dBu (.775 volts). That would reinforce what Mathew wrote above.

    Are the LCD display screen track meters calibrated to the MTR (i.e. to dBFS)?
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  8. Matthew Fogel

    Matthew Fogel Member

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    Yes. The line on the display is -12 and the Physical LED VU meter for the Master channel can go into the red and it will not clip. I have mixed down really hot and the actual track is pegged at -3 when imported into Reaper but not actually clipped. I found that the mix was very saturated at that level.
    The OL red will result in a clip showing 0db in your DAW when you move the file. +15 on the LED will show up as around -3 in the digital domain and +6 will show up around -5. In all cases the analog saturation will almost sound distorted. Like edge of Break up on an amp type stuff. (Which makes sense - I had to crank the MicPres to +30 range ie 3 o’clock) so unless it’s for a heavy guitar or metal vocals, you probably do not want.
    Did not like. But it was a good exercise to see the limits of the MTR. I usually keep my levels at or below the -12 line when recording and watch my gain when mixing down. And then when I drag over the files to my DAW I just hit normalize or use “loudness” in Goldwave before I go to work.
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  9. -mjk-

    -mjk- Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, on the DP machines, Export is only an export of a track or series of tracks. The Export function puts all the track edits together into a single, useable file. To do a mix on a DP machine, one has to record it in Mixdown mode, in real time.
    Matthew Fogel likes this.
  10. Matthew Fogel

    Matthew Fogel Member

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    Thanks for the clarification that it works the same if you want to commit your mix for both DP or Model.
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  11. Marcel

    Marcel New Member

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    ahhh this helps.
    Matthew Fogel likes this.