Tascam ATR-80

Hello wrkbee
No like other generic interfaces, the CF's 81 and 82 was designed specifically for the ATR-80 (I think CF-83 NOT!). In the last page of the first ATR-80-24's brochure that I saw (1987), the CF's, after the SPECIFICATIONS, appear like OPTIONS.
The ATR's CFs exist, because they were offered years ago, in the "TASCAM pocket guide" in Winter 1992 (quick reference to the complete line, from the MTS-30 midi to the ES-51 smpte/ebu synchronizers)
I Think the only poeple than can know about the ATR-80 CFs are the ATR-80's owners. I'll try with a new post.
Maybe you can help me if you know a ATR's owner or get an ATR Manual.
 
I understand your point,but ALL the ATR-80s in the U.S. came in through LA. There was never any of the CFs in the 25 years I was @ Teac.The ones I maintained used a a Microlynx or Tascam ES-50/51-both of which worked very well.I highly doubt if few, if any were ever made.Maybe they were in other countries-but not in the U.S. Hope you find one.Maybe Redbus can chime in...
 
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HI New here:)

I have a Tascam ATR-80 that I would like to hook up to slve from a MTS-1000 that will connect to my DAW as master.

Does anyone here know how this should be accomplished cable wise?

The serial port on the MTS-1000 I assume should have a cable made that connects to the Accessory Elco on the ATR-80 Does anyone here know how to make this cable or have a diagram?

Based on the manual I would have checked for the seriel interface that Tangled mentioned but subsequent to the post by Wrkbee of unobtanium now assume the Accessory Elco is the ticket to sync.

I also have the IF-1000 Parallel interface since many suns back had an audio video studio, but not sure if this part would be required to solve my dilemma.

Hope I posted to the correct forum, was not sure if I should start a new subject.

Thank you,

Mick
 
Hello Mick!
My ATS-500's serial port drives a MSR-24 or TSR-8 locked to the daw or between each other; but can't slave my ATR-80 or MS-16. Now I have an IF-500 too, witch has the parallel port needed to conect the elco 38 in the ATR-80 and MS-16. The IF-500's centronics 50 pinout is the same (identical) as the ES-51 ... and then, i think that if MT-1000's parallel port is a Centronics 50 ... the MTS-1000 has the same pinout too!
Among other things, I'am collecting info for build the cable ...

This text contains big errors, but thinking that it is very wrong to modify the publications that have been read and answered, I will not correct it!​
 
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OK then it would seem I am in the same boat as Tangled as far as how to build a serial cable to interface with the IF-1000.
Thanks Wrkrbee for the vote of confidence.
Both Tangled and I need the Elco Pinout- hope its in my ATR-80 book but don't recall seeing it in there. Sad that they did not just put a serial interface stock in the ATR-80 seems silly to go parallel as that was a sort of dead technology by the time the ATR-80 was first sold.

Elco accesory pinout for ATR-80 then lets get soldering...
 
Hey Mick.The MTS 1000 and IF 1000 Service Manuals will have the pinouts for the interface cable.The ATR-80 would have the pinout for the Elco.The parallel I/F cable between the I/F 1000 and the ATR is not a simple ribbon cable.The "tact" pulses have to have their own shield along with the Capstan Reference Freq. from the other lines in the cable. There are also multiple grounds in the I/F cable-the Digital and analog grounds are not connected. As I told Tangled,I worked at Teac America for 25 years-Field Service Tech/Sr Tech/Service Mgr before retiring in 2013,and never saw a Serial Interface box for the ATR, All transport functions can be done with the Parallel I/O-which is all you need in chase. So make it easier on yourself and use the ATR as a "code only master". Who cares if you can "arm "tracks remotely-that's what the ATR remote is for.Print SMPTE on TRK 24 and use the ATR as the master. Don't over think the issue.Much,much simpler-KISS-Keep it Simple Stupid.
Remember we are talking 1987 when pretty much the only things using RS-232 were printers.Writing at the Machine Code level is a PITA-so why not use the parallel I/O.Much better than SNAFU-Situation Normal All F'ed Up.Tangled-your "beating a dead horse" but Good Luck.
 
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wrkbee Lots of Tascam experience hence your handle here perhaps...

Yes that would be nice KISS except I cant have the DAW chase the analog deck and try to clock to the capstan, too many clocking errors there.
If the drawings call out for the individual ground circuits I think I can handle this being an electronics design/build person as long as the drawings are somewhat on point.
Thank you for the places of where to look!

If you can reccomend someone who might make the cable rather than messing around I may just go that route.
Just broke a wire on a male d-sub and broke the removal tool too so a bit fed up with cables at the moment.
Ordered some real tools from amp hope they work beter than this plastic garbage...
 
I'm assuming from your response you have tried the Code Only Master option.There are usually settings in the DAW to "freewheel",or set the number of frames before chasing and re-locking.I had a MSR 16 as a Code Only Master with Cubase on a PC as the slave, and didn't have the "clocking errors"-to me that means a Word Clock problem not a SMPTE problem-but I don't know how you are using the term.I don't know how how you can "lock to the Capstan".
 
When one stripes SMPTE onto the tape the code is written to the tape at the speed accuracy of the capstan which controls the speed the tape passes the heads and has a wow and flutter spec which is otherwise unmeasurable if attempted from a digital rather than analog source.
At some point freewheeling, when relocking, or not, there are going to be timing errors that otherwise would not exist on the digital side, by slaving the DAW to an analog tape machines tape speed from the original SMPTE striping. These errors will create IM distortion whether or not they cause obvious dropouts as the speed of samples over time will not be locked and cosistant as with an all digital recording.
That is why I claim locked to capstan as DAW would be locked to SMPTE code which was written to the accuracy of the capstan in the first place and apeing the original inaccuracy not to mention additive inaccuracy as master each time playback happens and another digital overdub takes place.
In a vintage video production analog environment which was the master and why?
 
In a vintage video production house the video was the master. SMPTE recorded on film.What about the slew rate/ inaccuracies of the motor running the Master and drift after warm up?
My final three questions then I will conclude my comments.
1.Have you tried a Code on Master?
2.Can you hear the IM distortion?
3.Wouldn't there be IM distortion with the DAW as the Master?
Hope you get it all sussed out Mick
 
I was just making a point as far as vintage video because it has to sync to colorburst so could not be used as a slave...
Yes motor drift and I think the motors are DC so not sure about slewing errors as with AC synchro drive but anyways yes both good reasons not to use analog as a master.
I have not tried slaving the DAW but have very jitter sensitive hearing...
In fact I just got this ATR and have to make cables before I can even hear it in all it's glory.
There is always some IM but with the DAW as master the time base is so solid wow and flutter are un-measurable the ATR-80 I figure is .03 to .05% wow and flutter under best conditions.
DAW chase I'm sure it's fine for most people, guess I prefer more complicated.
Who knows after all of the hassle I may just decide to go the way of a clasp where the machine just dumps everything out of the repro and never has to sync. Im sure it can be accomplished for much less money than they charge for that device.

I don't suppose you know anyone who still makes midizer cables?
 
wrkbee
Thanks for reminding me of the seperate shields looks like there are three called out in the atr-80 drawings but not mentioned on the Midizer/if-1000 manual which seems short sighted.
I forgot all about that but to the best of my recolection the guy who made my original cable for an Akai in 89 said it was a pain due to extra shields and a diode.

Do you recall if the ATR-80 requires the diode or not, between pin 13 and 15 looks like it should?

If tangled found someone to make cables for his Midizer I would like the contact info...
 
Hello Wrkbee!
Hello Mick!
I'm Sorry for the delay! ...

I don't have a MTS-1000 and an IF-1000 (the Midiizer and its parallel partner).
In Mar 2016 when I said "I have", what I had was an ATS-500 and an IF-500 (that I do still have!)
The ATS-500 is like a MTS-1000 without midi, and the IF-500 is for the ATS-500 the same as the IF-1000 is for the MTS-1000.

Now I also have an ES-50 (ending this post, I will explain the purpose).

In their tape recorders with parallel ports, Tascam used two type of connectors:
  • A) Elco (38 pin), marked "Accessory" (MS16, 48, ATR-60, ATR-80 and more)
  • B) DB-37 (37 pin), marked "Accessory 1" (TSR-8, MSR-16, MSR 24, ... ? ...)

In the Manuals, the ports of the synchronizers ES-50, IF-500 and IF-1000 are equal. So the corresponding "Master/Slave cable kit" (which I still don't have and must build) for an specific tape recorder works with the three devices.

For more, see the ortographic errors "signlas" (for "signals") and "DIRCTION" (for "DIRECTION") between pins 9&10 of the "Master I/F" description of the three named devices. (not only the circuits equal ... the pinout page text is the same! ... and copied with its errors!)
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My ATS-500 works perfectly with my MSR-24, then, same than Wrkbee says about the midiizer, I can say about my combo ATS-500 / IF-500: "will work".
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Ending the 80's, a friend colleague lent me his ES-50/51 system and so i had oportunity for to know, handle the cables and discover some components into the centronics's hoods shells.

In the biggest "Centronics" connector (50 pins / for the slave) there were two or three diodes and one resistor. (instead "Centronics","Amphenolic" in the manuals)
The small (24 pins / for the master) could have only one and lonely component .... but the thing that I saw repeated in both connectors were: various jumpers connecting groups of pins!

In the Elco connector of the ATR80's Accessory port the pins are identified with letters ... The first pin is "A" and the last is "TT" ... Then, there are no pins 13 and 15 in the ATR-80's port, but the Master and Slave "Accsssory" ports of the Tascam Synchronizers, both with numbered pins, do have that pair (13 and 15)
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I'm not an expert, but seeing the descriptions of "Pin Assignment Charts" for Master and Slave in the ES-50's manual, I don't think that in any case be necessary place a diode between pins 13 and 15.

In my opinion, a diode polarized in any direction between "13 DC Servo 1 Out" and "15 DC Servo GND Sense" in the Slave port, will cause servo troubles ... and between "13 Command Supply" and "15 FF" in the Master port, only could result in a general failure.
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About my ES-50:
Not only has the Tascam CF-81 been lost in time ....
In the page 35 and the Optional Accessories list, the "Tascam ATS-500/IF-500 Ownwer's Manual" requires "the ATS-IF Cable" as the only one connection's means between the ATS-500 and its parallel interface IF-500.

But ... Googling "ATS-IF Cable", you can only find three results older than this same post ...... and they are my own publications!
There's no news about the lost "ATS-IF Cable"

I think that despite its complex pinout, it's feasible to build the paralell cables for the "Accessory" ports of the devices ES-50, IF-500 or IF-1000 ...

I know that using indifferently any of the three devices, for one or other I need these cables.

Then, till I find the "ATS-IF Cable" or its schemes, I will build the ES-50's parallel cables to slave my ATR80 to my DAW.

Maybe Wrkbee, inspecting his old papers, can find some schematic or pinout for building the "ATS-IF Cable" ... or for the paralell cables for the "Accessory" ports of the ES-50.

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Analog never dies!
Cheers for all!
 
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