Using Reaper as a send effect

[Felonious Punk]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before.

I just did a quick test to see if it would work and I was successful. To what degree is yet to be established. It will require more experimentation. A close eye on levels will be essential.

Anyway, I patched send 2 (set to pre) to my interface input 1.

I have one of the sends on my interface sent to Input G.

I opened a track in Reaper and set the track to input 1 and set it to record.

I also assigned Input G to track 2 which had a prerecorded drum track.

Hit record on track 2 on the DP-24sd.

I was then able to use any of my plugins in Reaper as a send effect.

FP

 

[Felonious Punk]

I had more time to play with this and I have to clarify some things I missed in my original post.

To be clear, I chose Input G because it is closest to my interface. That is the only reason. You can obviously use any input you wish or any destination track.

This is intended to add effects to an already recorded dry track. You will be sending the original (source) track out through send 2 into an input on the interface for your DAW. You will be returning the new improved signal back to a different track of your choosing

I return the signal back to one of the Portastudio inputs with a patch cable via a send on the back of my interface.

Make sure you have the Send 2 settings on the original/source track set to "pre" and the both the Send 2 and Master 2 settings all the way up.

Assign whatever input you choose to the new destination track. Now press record on the new destination track. The signal on this track will now be affected by the effect in your DAW. Any changes made in the DAW will affect the effect in real time on the new track.

I hope this helps someone. I hope it makes sense.

FP

 

[Felonious Punk]

I will set up a template in Reaper for Tascam effects and leave the patch cord in place so I can access this anytime without hassle.

I don't have a lot of plugins and won't need many either but I do have a few nice IR's that I wanted to bring to the party. This should provide a nice solution.

I was a little bummed to find no compressor as a send effect (besides the Guitar FX) in the DP-24sd.

This routing method was inspired by Phil's video of sending the the tracks back through the Insert inputs to take advantage of the Dynamic effects.

Again, sorry if this has already been covered but it was an aha moment for me regardless and I appreciate the discussions that inspired my thought process.

PF

 

[Felonious Punk]

One last thing to point out...When this is set up correctly you will have the two tracks side by side, one dry and one with effects, to compare or combine in your mix. I forget what they call that...

FP

 

[Phil Tipping]

Thanks for sharing. Is there much latency? I measured the round trip on those videos (14A & 14B) so would be interested to know how a computer compares. As mentioned, you can always time shift the new recording if the latency is too large.

 

[Felonious Punk]

That was my next concern, Phil. I will test that out within the next few days.

I will say that this is the also the approach I have been using to record Addictive Drums and Addictive Keys. That is to say that I have been coming with a direct signal out of my interface into Input G of the Tascam. The only difference being that I am using the standalone versions of those two apps. I had no issues with latency using that approach.

FP

 

[Felonious Punk]

Another technical note for anyone wanting to try this. You must arm the track to record in Reaper and you must make sure you are monitoring the input.

FP

 

[Felonious Punk]

When I send the original/source track out through Reaper and record the signal back to the Tascam the two tracks line up perfectly. I guess this could prove there is no perceptible latency.

FP

 

[Felonious Punk]

That said, Phil...if you want some hard numbers on the latency just point me to what method you used and I would be more than happy to do that for you.

FP

 

[Phil Tipping]

Thanks for the update FP. I used an oscilloscope to measure the time difference, but you can judge by ear by playing both the dry and wet tracks together. Any delays will sound like a phasing or flangeing effect, or if they are really far apart, an echo.
If you can't hear anything, this is excellent

 

[Felonious Punk]

I will give it another go round later to check for any sign of delay or phasing. I have to go sing love songs at the restaurant right now. I'll report back to you tomorrow.

FP

 

[David Porter]

Yeah - but are they silly love songs?

 

[-mjk-]

There are number of YouTube videos on doing a Reaper latency test using an interface and a patch cable from output to input. Then you can add the number of packets difference to the delay compensation manually.

There's no way that Reaper can tell the Tascam to delay the recordings so, that loopback test is probably mandatory for that kind of arrangement.

 

[Felonious Punk]

Now that I have dispensed with the silly love songs I am happy to report I am experiencing zero audible latency between the source track and the recorded destination track!

For further clarification I dumped them into Audio Depot and opened them side by side in Reaper. The wave peaks match perfectly on the two tracks. One of the tracks was dry and one had reverb from a VST plugin.

I hope someone else will give this a try to confirm my results.

MJK makes a great point about latency if you experience it...it can be compensated for.

Good luck!

FP

 

[Felonious Punk]

This works great for changing guitar tones later. I used the built in guitar amp to record a track. I set the Tascam amp to play so it would just record the dry signal. Send that back through Reaper and you can replace the guitar tone with any vst guitar amp simulation you may have.

I actually liked the tone from the Tascam better than the TH3 signal I tested with but in the end I used the Mercurial TS vst pedal and JS Amp Model (comes with Reaper).

FP

 

[Brian Mac V]

Hi FP and all.

Yes I have tried similar routings previously, but fortunately my PC has the correct SD card reader, a transfer to REAPER takes seconds. I would suggest that you utilise the Audio Depot, if you don't have an SD slot. You aren't getting the "best" out of your plugins like that.

If your DP Project is 24 bit /48K, create a similar project with a high sample rate (512/1024) in REAPER. Move the Audio into REAPER using the INSERT Key, It will of course RESAMPLE, if the Audio is different. Apply Plugins and Automation to your track. If your Plugins have OverSampling, HQ or Linear Phase Options, switch them ON. Ctrl+Alt+R To bring up the Render Window. From the Drop Down Box, Select Online Render. Don't forget if it's 48K. Move the new file back into the Audio Depot and import into your DP project.

Occasinally I do it your way and I prefer Standalones to Plugins where possible. I have a pretty good Amp Sim that gets used often. One last thing, use the shortest best quality leads you can afford for this type of work.

 

[-mjk-]

@Brian Mac V that's a great point about increasing the sample size in Reaper when you don't need to worry about latency. I keep mine at 16 for tracking but go up a great deal bigger for Mixing and Mastering. One has to remember to put it back down for lower latency.

 

[Felonious Punk]

Thanks for your input @Brian Mac V. I am mix as you go guy. I like running through the plugins as a send so I can here them in the mix in real time. If there are issues with plugin quality I am comfortable with exporting and processing them through Audio Depot as well.

I tried running a project through Reatune for pitch correction and it was a hot mess. I had to export those tracks directly to Reaper. Most plugins have responded as expected and work just fine.

I think getting the best out of plugins is subjective and case by case. In any case...I have my first piece of outboard gear incoming shortly. I am sure I will find uses for both. The end result is what really matters.

FP

 

[Brian Mac V]

I don't know about "Subjective", there has been a great deal of discussion over the years on the REAPER forum and elsewhere on the topic of whether Plugins work at all/properly unless used in Online Render mode. And apparently NOT according to most. If you have a Plugin Project in Reaper, Render it Offline, and then Render it Online. A/B

google Reaper Render Quality

small edit/
I got an Audio Interface with a DSP, to have EQ and Comp before hitting S-Gear in Standalone at 48K, 128 samples, outputting straight into the DP - bloody awesome!! Got rid of RME got a Tascam 102i.

 

[Felonious Punk]

I am a hobbyist home recorder and I come from the hobbyist perspective. My projects don't go any further than my music pages. I am however a long time professional musician and trust my ears. I can recognize when the plugins are acting up. I have experienced this only once with pitch correction. I don't use a lot of time based stuff but the reverb plugins have worked great although I usually stick with the Tascam reverb anyway.

I use Reaper mostly for compression and saturation. I have experimented with vst guitar amps without issue.

The numerous discussions on the Reaper forum would point to the issue being subjective.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from using their DAW as a send effect. It only takes a few moments to hook up and it might be just what you are looking for. Try everything and use what works for YOU.

Those who argue the plugins aren't working at all worry me...

FP