DP32 import problem

[Mark Freeway]

Hello,
I'm a total newbie... both to this forum and to digital recording in general. So if this is the wrong place to ask this, please just let me know. Be gentle ;-)

Here is what I am trying to do. A while back, contact was made with some old band mates from *many, many* years ago. We are scattered around the country and only can meet up once a year at best. So, we are trying to learn to to play together "long-distance", by sharing recordings - adding tracks - and sharing again. All works OK with most of us, but one of the guys doesn't have a computer (yeah, I know... how can that be?), so the only way to share is to share SD cards.

Here is my issue - I am having problems importing wav files.

I have several recorded tracks. I exported them all individually to a PC to do some editing/mixing using Audacity. I backed up the exported files before doing any editing. After the editing, I want to import them back onto the DP32. I want to save both the mixed version and the individual tracks to an SD card so that I can share with my Luddite buddy. I am able to import the version that was mixed on Audacity, and also the first two individual tracks with no problem, but the rest of the tracks will not import. Well, actually they do import, but something must be wrong with the format, because when I try to play back there is nothing but noise, and the DP32 hangs - I have to power cycle to get it out of the hung state.

I thought that it must be something to do with the editing I did with Audacity (although I don't see anything different between the tracks that import and those that don't). So, I then just tried to re-import the un-edited original tracks that I had originally exported. Same thing... the first two tracks import fine, but the others don't.

I'm sure I'm either doing something stupid... or have some fundamental misunderstanding of how things work... but I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

Any suggestions... or can anyone recommend proper tutorials/videos that might be useful?

Thanks,
Mark


ps... I work a lot, so may not be able to be real prompt on responding to any suggestions...

 

[Mark Richards]

Mark, could be a few different things or a combination of things. Most common cause(s) are too-long file names and mismatched bit/sample rates. Maybe this will help:
http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/import-tracks.5413/#post-26915
and
http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/import-changes-track-to-white-noise.5313/

Also, in the sticky section is a link to Phil Tipping's excellent and free video series. Import/Export is one of the topics covered.
http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/dp-24-32sd-tutorial-videos.4475/

A forum search may turn up other possibilities. On the Results page, click on the Site Results tab to view relevant posts. Warning: there are at least 6 pages to wade through.

 

[-mjk-]

Hi Mark Freeway. I'm trying to figure out what you mean.

I have several recorded tracks. I exported them all individually to a PC to do some editing/mixing using Audacity.

These are tracks recorded on the DP-32?

I backed up the exported files before doing any editing. After the editing, I want to import them back onto the DP32. I want to save both the mixed version and the individual tracks to an SD card so that I can share with my Luddite buddy. I am able to import the version that was mixed on Audacity, and also the first two individual tracks with no problem, but the rest of the tracks will not import.

This is where you lost me. You are having trouble re-importing tracks that were recorded on, and exported from the DP-32? I don't follow, but, if the Audacity edited tracks work, I'd try importing all the tracks into Audacity, and exporting new versions at the same bitrate and sampling frequency as the song. I've successfully exported tracks from Audacity that were of a different resolution when originally recorded, and those new tracks import to the DP-32 with no issues.

Well, actually they do import, but something must be wrong with the format, because when I try to play back there is nothing but noise, and the DP32 hangs - I have to power cycle to get it out of the hung state.

If the format is wrong, you won't get past the import screen. It sounds like extra data is in the track and the DP-32 can't deal with it. I think between Mark's suggestions and Audacity exporting, you'll get it going.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Welcome Mark F. What the guys said... I'll just add a note re. Audacity in case you didn't already know. You must use Audacity's 'export' process to create files compatible with the dp24/32. During this export process you can change the wave file format to match the song you want to use in the dp machine. If you just do a 'File, Save' in Audacity, it will create a file using its own internal format which may contain extra data for its own use - this usually confuses other systems.
The Audacity export process was covered in this thread (scroll down to post #16) - oops - Mark R. has already mentioned this

 

[Mark Freeway]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the replies! Let me try to explain better what I am doing.

- I have a song with several tracks recorded on the DP-32.
- I exported all the tracks to the Audio Depot.
- I then connected to my computer with the USB cable and copied them to the computer.
- Then did some editing on the tracks using Audacity.
- I exported the edited tracks from Audacity (using export, not file-save, as Phil suggested).
- I then reconnect to my computer - using the USB cable, and copy the files (one at a time) into the Audio Depot.
- When I try to Import back into a song on the DP-32, tracks 1&2 work just fine. I can play the tracks and everything sounds and works as it should.
-However, the other tracks don't import properly. It actually tries to do the import, but gives me a "complete" message almost instantly (there is a delay before seeing this message when I import the tracks that work). And if I hit "Play" for the song, all I get is distorted noise. And it hangs. I have to power-cycle the DP-32 to get out of the hang. Then must delete the whole song, as it won't let me access further.

- The only other thing to add is that even if I take the original, *unedited* versions of the tracks that I exported and copied to the computer - and then copy back into the Audio Depot and try to re-import... I see the same failure. So I don't think it has anything to do with the edits I am making in Audacity. (I know it doesn't make sense to do this - just did it as an experiment to troubleshoot the problem. I didn't expect to see the problem doing this... but I do.)

I have checked the info/properties on the failing tracks and I don't readily see anything different in the format from the tracks that work. They all show 16-bit/44K.

Also want to correct one mistake in my original post: I am *not* able to re-import the mixed track (the combined track created & exported from Audacity). I can only re-import individual tracks 1 & 2. None of the other individual tracks or the mixed track work.

Hope what I am trying to do makes sense. As I mentioned, I am VERY new to this, and may be attempting something that doesn't work. But it seems like this certainly should be possible (especially since some tracks work, and others don't).

mjk mentioned perhaps extra data in the failing tracks. Any suggestions as to what I should be looking for? All the tracks (working & failing) were edited and then exported from Audacity.

Again, thanks to all for taking the time to respond! I've been digging through the forum, looking for similar issues, but haven't found the right answer yet... will keep looking.

Mark

 

[Phil Tipping]

Are you closing the USB connection down properly after copying files from/to AudioDepot? i.e. unmount/safely disconnect at the PC end first, wait for the 'ok' message, and only then close the link at the DP end.

 

[Mark Freeway]

Thanks for the suggestion!
I think so... I disconnect at the PC first. Don't really get an "OK" message. The DP-32 icon on my Mac disappears, so I assume it has disconnected. At least that's the way things usually work on the Mac. Only then do I close the link on the DP-32.

Found out right away when first using the DP that bad things happen if I don't do in this order.

The manual also seems to indicate that I need to unplug the USB cable too after closing the connection - before doing anything... but I've found that doesn't seem to matter.

And am disconnecting the same way whether importing a track that works, or one that doesn't.

Mark

 

[-mjk-]

Mark, please try shutting the DP-32 down, removing the SD card and reading it directly on the PC (card reader) without using the USB connection. Do your editing, etc. on the PC, copy to the card and put it back into the DP-32. If that works, the issue is most likely introduced in the USB transfer process.

If the above does not work, please try this and post the results:

Export whatever files you want, and then immediately import them to the tracks you're having issues with. Don't remove the card or do anything via USB. Just a quick export/import to see what happens. That should work perfectly. If you experience any problems with that, then the machine definitely has an issue.

 

[Mark Freeway]

OK. Will try doing that. I did try previously to plug the SD card into my mac and transfer that way without success. However, in reading through some other postings, I see that may have done it incorrectly. Will try again when I get home from work tomorrow.

If no success, will also try your 2nd suggestion.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Should mention that I have tried to import to multiple SD cards, and still see the problem.

Also going to try with the tracks for a couple more songs that I have recorded... and see if the problem shows up elsewhere.

Mark

 

[Phil Tipping]

I disconnect at the PC first. Don't really get an "OK" message. The DP-32 icon on my Mac disappears, so I assume it has disconnected.

MS Windows displays a pop-up message to say it's 'safe to remove'. I don't think Macs do this, but I guess once the icon has gone, it's safe. Ah well, it was worth checking - if the computer hadn't had time to finish writing the files, it might have explained why the first files worked but not the others.

The manual also seems to indicate that I need to unplug the USB cable too after closing the connection - before doing anything... but I've found that doesn't seem to matter.

There's no need to physically disconnect the cable.

 

[-mjk-]

Mark, do you have an actual DP-32 with MIDI, or the DP-32SD?

 

[Mark Freeway]

I have a DP-32. The version with a CD drive.

This just gets curiouser & curiouser..

I tried the things you suggested. I plugged the SD card directly into the PC and copied one of the offending wav files successfully into the AudioDepot folder. Then plugged the SD card back into the DP-32 and tried to import. Same problem. The "completed" message pops up immediately, and when I hit play, I get loud distorted noise and the DP-32 hangs. Have to power cycle.

Then tried your second suggestion, and here is where it gets odd... and is likely telling me something (if I only knew what!). When I try to export one of the offending tracks, I now get an "export failed" message. *However*, the track does show up in the AudioDepot, and I can copy over to my PC, and it plays just fine in Audacity. If I try to do as you suggest, and just import it from the AudioDepot right back into the DP-32 song file, it doesn't work... I see the same failure mode.

So, I think there is something wrong with some of the original tracks... even though they seem to play just fine on my computer. Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot that? I don't recall seeing error messages when I first exported... but it's been a while.

I did one other check. I loaded another song, and attempted to export, edit and re-import. That all worked as expected, so I think it is just the one song... so far anyway.

Again... any suggestions as to what I can check on those original tracks to see what might be wrong?

Thanks for you help!

Mark

 

[Mark Freeway]

Been thinking about how I get around this if I can't resolve the issue.
I think I could burn the tracks to a cd, then import them back into the DP-32 off the cd... or I suppose just send the cd to my friend and let him do it. ;-) (he has a DP-32 with the cd also)

Heck of an awkward way to do it, and I'd really like to figure out what went wrong so it doesn't happen again... but this might let us continue without losing what we have.

Mark

 

[-mjk-]

Hi Mark, and sorry you are having so much trouble! But, your diligent tests would seem to indicate data corruption. But it might just be the machine's control data that's borked, as the files play on the PC.

Since you can play them on the PC, then you should be able to export a clean copy using Audacity. I'd try to import to a different physical track and see if that works.

Next, I'd try the Clone Track option and see if the cloned track propagated the problem, or if it plays back correctly.

Somewhere I read that deleting (I think it was) the dp24.sys file from the SD card, the machine creates a new one and that can fix some corruption issues.

Assuming that you've been backing up your card as you progress, you could try replacing the files from previous sessions until you find the culprit.

A very curious failure indeed!

 

[Mark Freeway]

All good ideas. I'll give them a try and see if I can clean up whatever is corrupted. I'll let you know if anything works.

Thanks again!
Mark

 

[Mark Freeway]

I tried some of the things suggested:
- Importing to a different track didn't work.
- Cloning the track didn't fix the problem.
- Copied the song and re-saved, but that didn't fix the problem.

I think mjk is right. The song data is good (and I can copy to my PC, even though the export "fails"), but the machine control data for those tracks is corrupt.

However... I took the edited tracks on my PC and burned a CD with the individual tracks. Then imported the tracks back into the DP-32 from the CD as a new song. That works! I now have the edited tracks/song on my SD card. I can send to my friend and he can edit/export/import at will.

At least I was able to resolve... painful as it was.
And this seems to be the only song (so far) that has been afflicted with the problem. I'm guessing I just did something stupid... just wish I knew what it was. Phil mentioned earlier about closing the USB connection in the right order. I discovered early on while learning the machine that if I didn't do it in the right order, weird things happened and I had to power cycle to clear. I wonder if I did something like this in the middle of when I was exporting these tracks, and didn't realize it... and this was one of the weird things that happen???

Anyway... thanks again to all who responded. I appreciate all the suggestions!

Mark

 

[-mjk-]

Mark, you at least got it to work. You can also try making a brand-new song, reset from a known state, and import into fresh tracks.

 

[bodegg]

Not sure whether to start another thread, but I too have a DP32SD with import problems. As a total non-drummer, I have been creating backing tracks using an online drum sequencer, which I then save as a wav file and possibly tinker around with it using Audacity, before saving as a wav once again. I then import this drum backing track wav into the DP32 on usually tracks 31/32 to play against. However I now seem unable to import any wav files from the audio depot, apart from old ones I had imported a while ago. I have tried numerous methods of conversion to wavs to no avail. The wavs I save via audacity get a "cannot import file" error message. I have followed the disconnection sequence as above, again without success. Very strange. The DP24 has become very picky about the wavs it imports. Is it worth updating the firmware for starters?

 

[David Porter]

Hi bodegg -

Can't be sure what might be the import snag you're running into... so I'll start with the obvious:

Make sure that the wav file you're importing has the same format characteristics as the song you've created - specifically the bit rate and sample depth that you choose when you create a new song.

 

[-mjk-]

Bodegg, I would start by making sure the file extension is all caps: .WAV. And what David said.