Anyone tried a ribbon mic with Portastudio preamps?

[Brody]

I'm about to purchase a ribbon mic. Just curious if you need more gain than the preamps provide for these? Passive ribbon mics need ~65dB of gain according to the internet. I have a DP-03. The manual says nothing about the gain available from the built-in preamps. I have searched it and read over various sections.

I also tried searching here in the forums but didn't see anything about it.

Just need to know if I should buy an inline preamp along with my such as the dBooster when I buy the mic.

 

[-mjk-]

If you have the specs on the ribbon mic (or any other mic for that matter) you can check the specs on the DP machine and see if the output of the mic falls in the range of the DP's mic pres.

 

[Brody]

Hi mjk I sat down with the manual for the DP-03 and reviewed the specifications section again. It only provides impedance specs not gain range, unless I am reading it wrong. It has some odd verbiage around standard and maximum "level." Maybe I should infer from this that the gain range is 20dB. I'm attaching a screenshot. WDYT?

 

[Brody]

Maybe I don't know how to post an image ... it's not appearing for me.

Try this link https://imgur.com/a/sBd9gp9

 

[-mjk-]

@Brody that's how you post an image, with a link to an external service.

The image says the input level of the XLR input is -16 dBu to 0dBu. If your ribbon mic output is lower than that you're going to need an external preamp.

 

[Phil Tipping]

I couldn't find anything in the DP-03 manual which specifies the max gain available. From my understanding, the value of -16dBu is just the standard/nominal level as opposed to the lowest signal it can handle.

The DP-24/32 manuals contain an additional gain-staging diagram which shows there is 42dB of gain available by the trim controls. Its nominal value is -14dBu so I believe this means an input level of -56dBu can be handled. This also means if the DP-03 is similar, it won't be enough if your ribbon mic needs approx 65dB of gain.

Just for comparison, none of the other DP manuals have a gain diagram either, but here are their XLR levels (with varying descriptions of nominal, standard and rated!):
DP-02: Nominal -8dBu, max +8dBu
DP-03SD: Standard -16dBu, max 0dBu
DP-008: Standard -8dBu, max +8dBu
DP-24 & DP-24SD: Rated -14dBu, max +2dBu

 

[Mark Richards]

dBu to Volts Conversion
0 dBu = .775 Volts
-16 dBu = .123 Volts.

As an addendum to what Phil and mj wrote, ribbon mic output voltage relies on the air particles passing over the ribbon element, which doesn't move the element very much; so not much change in voltage. Some modern ribbon mics have been designed with active electronics for use with phantom power. A typical ribbon mic without onboard active electronics has a nominal voltage output of 1mV (.001V).

Dynamic mics typically are 3x the nominal output voltage of ribbons (3mV dynamic; 1mV ribbon). Dynamic mics start out with better dBu numbers because of the greater nominal voltage. On top of that, dynamic mic voltage increases as the SPL flexes the diaphragm: greater movement = more voltage, like a speaker in reverse. So higher SPL contributes to better voltage and thus better dBu numbers.

The OP's question was whether the DP-03SD mic preamp gain is sufficient for use with a ribbon mic.

IMO, absent the necessary preamp gain specs, the only way to know with certainty if the DP-03SD onboard preamps have enough gain to raise a ribbon mic to useful level is to plug in the mic; but to achieve the DP-03SD's .123V / -16 dBu nominal input level, the onboard preamp probably will not be sufficient for a ribbon mic that doesn't have onboard active electronics.

 

[Arjan P]

As long as you don't mention the particular ribbon mic, there's nothing to say here. I have for example the Sontronics Sigma ribbon mic, which uses phantom power and has no problem at all giving out 'usual' condensor mic output levels..

 

[Brody]

Thanks for the help everyone!

The reason I didn't mention a specific microphone yet was that I was still shopping / comparing. But I did mention it would be a passive ribbon mic. It was meant as more of a general question.

 

[Brody]

To update this for any future readers, and for what it's worth:

I tested out an MXL-R144, one of the cheapest ribbon mic's that money can buy, straight into my Tascam DP-03. With the Tascam DP-03 preamps at max gain, the signal came in at "barely audible." So my conclusion is that you'll need a separate preamp with the DP-03 or a booster (like the Soyuz, CloudLifter, or DBooster), if using a passive ribbon mic like the MXL with your Tascam DP-03.

 

[-mjk-]

@Brody there are many nice not-too-expensive mic pres on the market, including some tube preamps that also have compression capability. I suggest that you think about those rather than just some kind of "booster" because the mic pre is perhaps the most important aspect of recording early on in the process. @Arjan P mentioned a particular ribbon mic that has a higher output level. You may also want to consider something like that. If the cheapest ribbon mic doesn't cut it and you have to spend more money anyway, then perhaps the place to spend the extra money is on a better mic, rather than a cheap mic and a preamp.

 

[Brody]

I'd love to hear more about this idea because I honestly still haven't decided what I'm going to do. I might buy an external mic pre. In the past, I've made recordings with many of the cheaper mic pre's on the market (from Presonus, Studio Projects, Behringer, Mackie, DBX) and personally I think the Tascam Portastudio preamps are better than some and no worse than others. I say this not to contradict but to relate where I'm at currently. Having had that experience it makes me less interested in an external mic pre. Also they take up space that I don't have. I actually sold a Studio Projects DMP-3 because it sat here unused for a few years.

Regarding "...spend the extra money on a better mic" I assume you mean purchasing an active ribbon mic. From what I read, these are the same as a passive ribbon mic plus inline preamp just that the inline electronics are incorporated into the mic itself. So I'm not really following this line of thinking atm. I'm sure I could be wrong about all of this.