Baffled by timing error DP-32sd

[Findlay]

I'm having a timing problem with an old song I'm working on. I originally recorded it in 8-track on a DP-01fx and have imported the 8 original wave files into the DP-32sd with no problem. Everything sounds great. But I had later worked on track 8 - the lead vocal track - using a DAW (Nuendo). I had inserted a minute or so of new vocal in the middle of the track. In the DAW this shows up as a new wave segment within the track. I want to be able to insert this modified track into the DP32-sd. But it is not so simple exporting individual tracks in Nuendo - especially segmented tracks (this is one of the main reasons for wanting to work on a Portastudio again!). The only way I can work out to do this is to solo track 8 on the DAW and do an audio export. I did this and, to test it, re-imported the track into track 9 on the DAW and it sounds fine - perfectly in sync and not segmented. But when I import this mono audio file into track 9 (mono) of the DP-32sd it is out of sync by about 4 seconds. The vocal comes in around 4 seconds early compared to the original on track 8. I tried to sync it by inserting about 4 seconds silence but even if it starts in sync it wanders out of sync quite rapidly, like in the good old tape days! I just can't figure out why this is happening. Am I doing something silly here? I'd appreciate any thoughts!

 

[-mjk-]

If the files sync up in the DAW, export all of them. Create a new song and import all of those files into the new song.

 

[Findlay]

Thanks mjk. I imported the audio mix of the solo main vocal (previously in several takes on track 8) into the DAW on track 9 of the DAW (Nuendo) as a mono track. It played in perfect sync to track 8 and all the other tracks on the DAW. I then transferred all 9 mono audio files into the audio depot folder on the card for the DP-32sd, created a new song on the DP-32sd and inported the files into tracks 1-9 on the DP32sd (I have made track 9 a mono track). When I play back tracks 1-8, including the main vocal on track 8 are in perfect sync but track 9 (which is the composite main vocal) is still about 4 seconds out of sync (vocal comes in too early during the intro). Tearing my hair out over this one!

 

[-mjk-]

Make sure all the tracks are the same length. If you started recording in the DAW just before the vocal part, you're missing the pre-roll, the lead in before the vocals.

 

[Findlay]

Thanks again. Have made sure track 8 (vocal) and track 9 (composite vocal after solo mix down) are exactly the same length (to the ms) and start at exactly the same time in the DAW. Still get the sync problem! Just tried loading the files into my DP008-EX and I get exactly the same sync error so it is not just the DP32-sd. I'm not sure what can be going wrong here.

PS Have just opened up the DAW, created a new song and loaded the files in. I get the same sync problem with track 9 - I guess it must be something wrong with the mixdown. But I can't work out why the track syncs perfectly when I import it into the original song on the DAW.

Even more baffling if I try to obtain sync by shifting track 9 within the DAW in the new song I've just made it loses sync after a few seconds. I found the same using the track editor in the DP32-sd - if I shifted the track back by about 4s to get sync at the start it rapidly lost sync again.

 

[Findlay]

Just in case anyone was losing any sleep over this (!) I thought I'd post an update. The (DAW ) sync problem was just too much so I did some new vocal overdubs using the DP-32sd on the track 8 which I had imported from the DAW and synced OK. I also did a few harmony vocal overdubs on tracks 6 and & which had imported OK. I then created a new harmony vocal on track 9 of the DP32sd and imported all 4 tracks back to the DAW as an experiment. Tracks 6, 7 and 8 where in perfect sync with the instrumentation on tracks 1 -5. But the new track 9 was about 4 seconds out of sync at the start with the sync error increasing as the track progressed. Still baffled!

PS thought I'd just mention that this session was the first time I'd used the footswitch in earnest - what a fabulous bit of kit - it makes it so easy punching in and is such a delight to use. And I'm knocked out by how good the DP-32sd sounds with mic inputs.

 

[David Porter]

Man... that sync issue really is a head scratcher. Not sure what to think about that. I've only moved tracks back and forth with Cubase - but not much - and with no problems.

I also use and appreciate the foot switch. I wouldn't want to operate without it now. It's a regular part of my workflow at this point.

Hope you get that sync thing worked out. Glad your enjoying the DP otherwise.

 

[-mjk-]

@David Porter I'm considering getting a second footswitch and modifying it into a desktop remote transport control surface with pushbuttons.

 

[Sam Trenholme]

Question: Are you using Audio Depot to export and import tracks? While directly using tracks in the song files sometimes works, it can also cause issues like the ones being described here.

 

[Findlay]

Man... that sync issue really is a head scratcher. Not sure what to think about that. I've only moved tracks back and forth with Cubase - but not much - and with no problems.

I also use and appreciate the foot switch. I wouldn't want to operate without it now. It's a regular part of my workflow at this point.

Hope you get that sync thing worked out. Glad your enjoying the DP otherwise.

Hi David. I did a little research and found quite a few other other people on the Steinberg forum had experienced sync problems with imported tracks. Nobody seems to have any idea why it is happening or how to sort it. I hope I don't get to much of it as I have quite a few old songs I've worked on with the DAW that I want to work on with the DP-32. Glad you love the footswitch too. Thanks again for all your help - It was you that made me go for buying a DP-32 after all your helpful advice. So glad I did!

 

[Findlay]

@David Porter I'm considering getting a second footswitch and modifying it into a desktop remote transport control surface with pushbuttons.

Could you use one to control a DAW such as Nuendo? I was thinking that this is an area the portastudios have a big advantage.

 

[Findlay]

Question: Are you using Audio Depot to export and import tracks? While directly using tracks in the song files sometimes works, it can also cause issues like the ones being described here.

Yes Sam - I'm using Audio depot to import and export. I suppose Nuendo is putting some sort of timing code on the WAV files that the Tascam doesn't see?

 

[Mark Richards]

Instead of doing an audio export of your vocal track, try doing a mix down of that one track in your DAW, then import that vocal.wav file into your DP32SD. If you get the same result, the problem is on the computer side, not the DP32SD.

Also after you import, do all the tracks actually start at 000.00 (or Bar 1 /Beat 1)? Confirm by examining the wave form start location for each track using the Jog/Play button.

 

[Findlay]

Hi Mark. I've tried mixing down that one track to a mono WAV and importing into the DP-32sd. I still get the weird 4 sec or so delay at the start and increasing out of sync as the song progresses (about 30 secs out at the end). So I guess it is Nuendo playing up. Steinberg don't seem to know the answer either.... After I import the tracks all start at zero. I can see the out of syncness (!) by looking at the waveforms 4s or so apart.

 

[-mjk-]

Could you use one to control a DAW such as Nuendo? I was thinking that this is an area the portastudios have a big advantage.

I don't see any way to use the Tascam foot switch to control a DAW. But I can control Cakewalk Sonar with my DP-32 because it has MIDI. It acts as an eight channel control surface. It's not a priority at the moment, but I will be working to get it functioning with Reaper too.