DAW-Less Recording & Mixing of Keyboards Now - With a DAW Later

[Old No7]

My 1st posting -- I sure could use some insights from this forum... Thanks!

Instead of going DAW-less versus getting a DAW, I'm thinking: "Why not have both?"

As background info:
* I'm "old school" and like having physical boards (synth, clonewheel organ, e-piano), and I have zero interest in virtual instruments from a PC at this time.
* I work on a computer for 9 - 11 hours per day -- the last thing I want to do at night is to start up yet another computer; I just want to make and record (and then eventually master) all of my original music.

Ideally -- I'd like to get some recording equipment that:
--> Enables me to do DAW-less recording & mixing of my 3 keyboards now to grow my skills.
--> But then also allows me to easily integrate into and master with a DAW system later.

A Possible Solution ? ? ?
==> After weeks of looking at various forums (like this one) and many online videos, I believe that a Tascam Model 12 might just do all that for me.

The combo of having a live digital mixer and digital recorder would get me on the road towards recording without a DAW; but the extra features of it also being an audio interface and DAW controller would enable an easy upgrade to a DAW later. The Model 12 seems to be a better option versus buying a Tascam DP Pocket- or Portastudio, enabling DAW-less recording now with DAW mastering later (without having to buy another audio interface).

--> Am I right about the Model 12s capabilities for my needs/wants?

I’ve read that many musicians like the fact that recording to an SD card can be very quick -- without firing up a computer -- for when the inspiration hits, to capture a new lick, or honestly just to "avoid using a computer"! Many musicians say SD card recording allows their music & creativity to be a higher priority than working with a computer, and many prefer the mixer layout (with knobs & faders) as a DAW controller more than using a mouse. All of these comments really appeal to me.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this!

Old No7

 

[-mjk-]

The Model 12 was designed to work specifically with a DAW to do the heavy lifting. You cannot even bounce/submix tracks with it. IMO your best option would be a DP machine because you can export the tracks and import them into the DAW (I did that frequently). The DAW control aspect of the Model 12 is limited, and, also the number of tracks you can work with is limited too. You'd be better off with something like an X-Touch to take full control of the DAW when you go that route. But before you start using the DAW, you'll need a fully functional recording system, and the Model 12 is not that.

You may want to consider this post by a new Model 12: user: https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/model-12-no-cut-copy-paste-move.9169/

He sold it and got a DP-24.

 

[Stew71]

I think it's a question of emphasis according to your priorities. I have a DP24 and a Model 12; I bought the latter mainly for its interfacing capabilities with my MPC Live, and smaller footprint (I have a tiny room) but the DP24 is an excellent machine.

I think both can do a very good job for what you've described. I find file transfer between M12 and PC actually easier than DP24 and PC, and the lack of dedicated bounce is easy to get around really (via exporting submixes, then importing them, and if you want to keep your original recordings then import to a new project).

Another point to bear in mind is if you want to use your recorder as a MIDI clock master: in that case, you'd need an original DPxx (not the DPxxSD), or a Model 12. Bear in mind that none of these machines act as MIDI slaves.

I posted recently about my thoughts on using both: https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/model-12-export-import-vs-dp24.9150/

 

[Morgelec]

Old No7,

I think the Model 12 might be perfect for you.

My situation is similar to yours. After working on a computer all day the last thing I want to do is start messing with a DAW. One of the reasons I got the Mod12 was for my wife to put down tracks, since she had zero interest in working with a DAW. She has taken well to the Mod12 and has been doing some tracking. That said, another thing we are doing now is playing live together and recording it. This has tightened up our playing and it's a lot of fun compared to always laying down separate tracks.

You mentioned "upgrade to a DAW later". Do you have any experience with using a DAW? The 12 is a hybrid approach to recording. I'm tracking with the 12, in one sense like it's a tape machine. Once I've got tracks down, I fire up my DAW and do my mixing using the 12 as an interface. I do use some plugins when mixing and mastering. Another thing I've done is once my wife has the piano tracks all done, I may add additional instruments, and at this point I stay in the DAW and do it. This is just a workflow choice, and a big reason I like hybrid approach to recording. The nice thing about hybrid recording is that you have options on how you do things.

Just keep in mind you will need to use a DAW to do any mastering, which becomes another topic in of itself. If you can embrace the DAW, the 12 may be perfect for you.

 

[Old No7]

Hello, and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I will be getting a DP-24SD (it's already on order), as I've changed my mind on getting a Model 12 for these reasons, copied from the "Basic Facts" sticky about the Model 12/16/24 features from this site:
* If you do have or ever foresee a future need to edit tracks, do post-production work or master your work, then these Models will require using a D.A.W. program to accomplish those production tasks.
* All require using a D.A.W. for editing and mastering. They have no on-board editing/mastering capability.

For now, it's just me (no active band at this time), the Mojo pedals and 2 hands on 3 boards (MODX6, Mojo 61, RD-88). I'm approaching this journey along the recording/producing path in 3 stages:

Stage 1 = Live I've been stuck at this stage since the mid 80's, when family life & kids and working took over my world... I can only perform what I can play live. I got back into keyboards a few years ago with the equipment above after too many years away from it... (That seems to be a common theme for some of the older crowd.)

Stage 2 = Tascam DP-24 This will allow me to start my journey into recording, mixing and mastering (yes, "with limitations"...) to get all of the songs I've written since the mid 70's, and some more recent partially-written songs or musical ideas into a digital form with basic mixing of other instruments/tracks with some vocals added. Once I get my best stuff up to this stage, with at least a rough mix versions of each; then I'll try to master a few of them the best I can on the DP-24. They won't be considered "done" -- unless I really surprise myself -- yet some DP-24 users have suggested that "it IS possible" to get a great result. Hope so!

Stage 3 = DAW Once I prioritize which songs -- of the dozens from Stage 2 -- that I really want to work up further in a DAW, then I'll make that investment. But before I do that, I may download a few songs from the DP to a friend's DAW (my drummer from back in '82, his older brother) so they can show me what more we could do in a DAW system. And a local music store has an audio engineer who will master my files in a DAW (for a fee, of course) to show me what's possible; and after that, he offers lessons to help shorten the learning curve of using a DAW,

I've read many comments from other musicians about using a box like a DP-24 versus a DAW and these really resonate with me -- "Working on a computer all day, the last thing I want to do at night is to start up yet another one"; or that "Recording to an SD card can be very quick... when the inspiration hits, to capture a new lick"; or because "Many musicians like the SD card option so their music and creativity takes a priority over working on a computer". Those comments have heavily influenced my thinking, and sum up what I am trying to achieve with a DP-24 and my staged approach.

When I do finally do "graduate" to using a DAW, for sure, I will know much more about recording, mixing and mastering than I know now; and I'll have a much better idea of what I need/want to do and my priorities. I could still use the DP to capture musical ideas quickly and/or to record some impromptu jam sessions with some musician friends that I hope to start doing more and more of some day (after I retire, or scale back at work some).

Anyway, that is my new plan.

Old No7

 

[Mark Richards]

-- yet some DP-24 users have suggested that "it IS possible" to get a great result. Hope so!

In the "Songs" forum, I posted a thread with links to some rough DP-24 mixes/masters I created a few years ago to test portastudio production techniques.

Those rough mixes/masters were purposely done on the bright side, but still fall more or less within the general audio spectrum parameters for pop music. Whether the audio productions (not the performances ) might meet your criteria, I'll leave to you, but at least it might give you some notion of the potential offered by stand-alone portastudio production techniques.

There also are several recent "DP-24/32/SD created" threads in the Song Forum (posted in the last year or so) by JP Illes, Paul Santa Maria, BRADEL Christophe, and Bikerdude; by James Flynn and Danmusic (who tracked on a portastudio and mixed/mastered using a D.A.W.); and by Robert Monahan (who tracked on a portastudio and engaged -mjk- to mix and master the tracks). There likely are many more (earlier) portastudio threads in the Songs forum, but these come to mind immediately.

 

[Old No7]

In the "Songs" forum, I posted a thread with links to some rough DP-24 mixes/masters I created a few years ago to test portastudio production techniques.

There also are recent "DP-24/32/SD created" Song Forum threads (posted in the last year or so)...

Thank you for posting those Mark. I listened to all of yours -- well done, I really like them -- and to many of the others. This has further fueled my eagerness to start my journey.

See you over on the "DP-24-32" forums; guess I will be spending more time there, yet I am grateful to all those who replied to this posting.

Old No7

 

[BazzBass]

@Old No7 welcome

glad you had the intelligence to ask on here BEFORE buying, ensuring you did not buy the wrong unit for you, unlike so many others recently lol
looking forward to hearing your music one day