DP-24SD Inputs Quiet Enough for Acoustic Guitar

Michael-M

Michael-M

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Gear owned
Model 12
I’m getting rid of my Model 12 because the inputs are so noisy that I cannot use it to record solo acoustic guitar, even with going DI. (see my post: https://www.tascamforums.com/thread...range-noise-problem.8508/page-2?_params=Array)

In it’s place I’m thinking of getting the DP-24SD because I’d like to stay with this mode of recording. However, if the noise floor of the inputs/preamps is prohibitive to getting an ultra quiet solo guitar recording then I will have to consider something else.

Those of you who record solo acoustic guitar, what has been your experience?

Thank you!
 
I cannot answer if there is any difference between Model 12 and the DP24/32 with regard to " noise level". But I suspect something else may be causing this.
What mic are you using?
Does it need phantom power? (Is it switched on or off).
Is the mic connected to the XLR or TRS input?
Any other hardware gear between the mic and Tascam?
How far away is the mic?
What position is the gain knob?
What are the peak level on the input signal?
Do you have any internal effects active? Like compression?
 
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Hi Saxomohawh,

Setting aside my signal path for a moment . . .

Even with nothing plugged into the channel the white noise on the Model 12 is too (ridiculously) high for recording solo acoustic guitar, whether using a mic or DI.

I decided to record a channel with nothing plugged into it, then transfer the WAV file to my computer. Sure enough, the white noise was present in that empty track.

I think the Model 12 is fine if you're recording multiple instruments where the white noise will be unnoticeable in a mix; this is what I was doing before attempting to record the solo acoustic piece. I could use a plugin to remove the white noise but that also will remove some of the tonal qualities of the acoustic guitar that then makes it sound crappy and unnatural.

Michael
 
Ok, I don't think I can help you more with this then. I haven't had any issues with noise on the DP24 SD, and I haven't read about anyone else complain about it either.

In the thread you link to above there are some very good answers I think. It may not be a very relevant test to record/judge the noise level with no load connected.
 
"I haven't had any issues with noise on the DP24SD..."

Actually that's plenty of help! :)

It's good to know it's possibly the unit I can switch to for recording.
 
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Hi David,

Thank you for posting that. It’s quite a night-n-day difference between your recording and what I was getting on the Model 12. Where the pauses between notes/chords on your recording are quiet, like it should be, mine had audible white noise.

I’ve purchased a DP-24SD which will arrive on Friday. I’m looking forward to recording on it and hopefully the result will be much more possitive than with the Model 12.

Michael
 
FWIW, I've never heard shot noise or other extraneous noise on my DP-32.
 
either your model 12 is faulty or your signal path is. But you recorded white noise without anything plugged in

it's not that the model 12 is inherently noisy,just the one you got. Unlucky.
 
According to the specifications the Model 12 has better s/n ratio than the DPXX. So yes, either your unit is faulty, or something in your set-up is wrong.

Model 12:
S/N ratio 103dB (MAIN MIX & 1Ch 0dB, 22kHz, A-weighted)
Equivalent input noise (EIN) -128 dBu (Rs=150 Ω, MIC IN w INSERT SEND, gain knob at MAX, A-weighted)

DP24/32 SD:
S/N ratio INPUT (MIC/LINE) q STEREO OUT/EFFECT SENDS/MONITOR OUT: 90 dB or more
 
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I have the DP24SD, and I record acoustic guitar. I use a high-end pre -amp which is dead silent, running it into the 24 with the 24's trim set to "line" and at 24/48 I have no noise issues at all, even when cranking it to check. The only "noise" is whatever ambience is in my room.
Personally I wouldn't trust the built-in pres for critical work; I have used external pres all along, first on my 788, then on my 2488, to get the max out of the machines.

C.
 
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-mjk-,
Thanks for the additional confirmation of the DPs not having a noise issue.

BazzBass,
I might lean toward the Model 12 I got being faulty, sort of what the OP in the thread I linked to is determining. I did wonder if the cause was due to dirty power or interference from something else, but before getting the Model 12 I was using a Zoom R8 and it was dead quiet.

Saxomohawh,
Thanks for the info. If the DP I purchased is quiter then I’d say the Model 12 was faulty. I’ll post back here after I receive and setup the DP.

Cosmic,
What’s the preamp you’re using? Is there a mic in front of it?

Thanks every one!
 
Michael,

In my case, my current pre-amps are a 4-pack rack unit of Millennia hv3Ds, which, admittedly, is somewhat overkill for home use, but I have had good success with my previous pres (which I still have.)

My older pre is the Sytek mpx-4a (also a rack 4-pack) and they are solid, wonderful-sounding and a lot less money. They should give you the quiet you are looking for as well. Not sure if they are still being made, but should be available used.

For mics, I first had a set of Neumann 184 small condensers, which I didn't like for my purposes. They are bright in the highs, and their off-axis sound is colored.

I went to the top with a pair of Schoeps 641 supercaridoid small condensers. Quite expensive, but lifetime investments for me. Once you have them, barring any disasters, you will never sell them.

The Schoeps mics are ruler-flat and deadly accurate. What is in front of them is what you get. To me, their other real sales point is their off-axis behavior. They don't change their sound off-axis, they just lose volume, so the overall recording is supremely natural and good to the ear.
Your room, your instrument and your playing is "your problem" as they will give you what you give them, but they keep you honest. Many different capsules are available for them; I have a set of "22" caps (a medium-wide cardioid) on the way for my acoustic guitar recording.

Anyway, good luck with your choices, and as mentioned, for reasonable money, the Sytek pres are very good.

Claus.
 
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Claus,

That’s some darn nice preamps and mics you’ve got! Someday

I think I do need to seriously consider a preamp. I’ve always run a mic straight in without one, didn’t seem to be needed, maybe that was due to going into a computer rather than a mixing board or digital recorder.

Michael
 
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Many outboard mic pres are actually part of vintage console channel strips. The main reason to use an external mic pre (when your console or interface already has mic pres) is for the coloration that device adds to the audio. I know people who swear by Neve pres and bring a rack of them to every session. The same can be said of SSL mic pres. Personally I'm an API man, but I also own a Soundcraft console and I sometimes use those mic pres over the Midas-designed X32 pres. But honestly, one would have to have a very trained ear (and good monitors!) to hear enough of a difference to justify the expense of these outboard mic pres for a home studio. There are so many more things that the money could be spent on that would make more of a difference in the final result.
 
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-mjk-,

True about the relation of high end gear to home studios. ". . . so many more things that the money could be spent on . . ."
 
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I purchased and received a DP-24SD. I'm quite happy with it as compared to the Model 12; somehow it just "fits" my brain better. No regret with the purchase.

I have found though that there's a ground loop problem in my setup. I recently moved into an apartment and have no control over the power source in the walls; which I think is the cause of the problem. Terrible and prohibitive buzzing when anything is connected to the DP.

I've decided to buy the Morley Hum Exterminator to see if that will fix the issue. Hopefully so. Although since the DP does not have a ground on the power adapter I'm not sure how the Morley might solve the ground loop.

I will post here as I learn more.

Michael
 
@Michael-M those can be troublesome to eliminate. You can start with isolating any connected equipment from the mains grounding system. Most studios have a star ground that is separate from the power company ground (I have an interesting story about that, for another time!). USB connected sources are notorious for that too, so if you're not using the USB with your DP machine you may want to try unplugging that until you have to use it. Since the DP has no USB audio connection, that's not really so inconvenient as you aren't recording while using USB and you aren't using USB when you're recording. My original DP-32 has a grounding lug on the chassis. You can try adding a ground wife between pieces of equipment and see what impact that has on your noise floor. Feel free to ask questions and by all means please post your results!
 
Another good reason to isolate from the power grid ground.
 
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