Internal clock reset itself; backup battery

[shredd]

Got a curious little episode:
My DP-32 is plugged into a central AC supply that is shut down when the studio isn't in use (to prevent power surges/fluctuations - very common here). And yes, the DP is always properly shut down before the AC mains are powered down.

Recently I started a new project and found that it was time-stamped wrong - the internal clock had reset itself to the default of 01-01-2000, 00:00:00AM.

I immediately suspected that it might be the internal/backup battery (the one that maintains settings/preferences when the unit is powered down and/or unplugged from AC power)...especially 'cuz the Preference panel's setting for AutoPowerSave (which I leave [OFF]) had ALSO reset to [30MIN], which I believe is the default.
BUT: all other system settings, preferences, etc are still in place - screen settings, footswitch choices, JumpBack, Undo levels, PeakHold/Preview time, yada. And of course the settings written into each project's "file" are intact.

Any insight on this? If it IS the internal battery dying (probably one of those on-board 2032's) - does anyone know where it is/how hard it is to get to...or have any other guidance on replacing it?

 

[dctdct]

Curious how this battery have to be replaced.
Regarding the settings, I believe the most part of the configuration is on the SD card. This would explain why it is still correct. But I might be wrong…

 

[shredd]

Regarding the settings, I believe the most part of the configuration is on the SD card. This would explain why it is still correct

I'm not even sure this unit HAS a backup battery in it...I located a DP Service Manual package and it contains a block diagram, wiring diagram, and FULL schematic (which of course in insanely complex) - and while I'll admit my engineering ability is limited, I do understand schematics and I was not able to locate a battery.

AND - as you pointed out - the fact that 90% of the system settings (not settings for individual songs) are intact suggest they're NOT stored on a battery-powered chip, but in a readable system file on the SD card.
One question for you super-tech-heads: would the fact that the SD card is interchangeable mean that every time you format an SD card for use in the DP, that it writes a "sys" file to it, with all those settings? Or where ARE they stored???

Yet the mystery of MY DP-32 remains: why did the clock (and the [AutoPowerSave] setting) both reset themselves to defaults - yet all the other system settings stayed intact??

There's GOT to be a realistic explanation...the only other thing that makes sense is something like this has happened to my DP...

 

[Old No7]

something like this

Gee shredd -- thanks for sharing that image...

Saw that movie at a drive-in theater -- I was underage and snuck-in, hiding in the trunk... (And I didn't dare get back in the dark trunk after the movie, so they had me lie down on the floor as we drove out...)

Old No7

 

[shredd]

Gee shredd -- thanks for sharing that image...

I KNOW, right?
I have the DVD of the 'super-creepy director's cut' and have been watching that movie at least once or twice a year since Carter was POTUS. And it STILL creeps me out.

So I think my DP-32 is probably possessed. Today, it scrambled all the little .WAV chunks that make up a guitar track into a garbled, unintelligible mess. I was gonna just restore the track from a backup...but instead I shut down, restarted, and it sounded normal again. CLEARLY a case of demonic possession.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Agree with dct; there is a .sys file at the top level of the sd-card, which would be a sensible place for global settings. Don't know why just the clock and auto-power settings have reset.... but if you're now saying a song has been 'scrambled', this suggests that the card is suspect... Update - see next post.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Update... just found an internal battery in the schematic! It's marked RTC so looks like your theory re. clock was correct Just hope it's easy to replace.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Here it is on the main board....
Warning, I shouldn't need to say this, but don't open up the machine unless you are ok with dealing with delicate cables/plugs and static-sensitive devices.

 

[shredd]

View attachment 2385 Update... just found an internal battery in the schematic! It's marked RTC so looks like your theory re. clock was correct Just hope it's easy to replace.

Bingo! I missed it. Good eye, @Phil Tipping !
I suspect the schematic's "RTC" refers to "Real Time Clock", which I wasn't looking for. And I don't know the schematic symbol for a battery, so I totally overlooked it, and didn't spot it on the PCB diagram either.
I toldja I was stewpyd...

At THIS point - I'm not going to "go in". If the clock and the AutoPowerSave is the only things affected, I can't justify it. It's pretty occasional and more annoying than problematic, though it will surely get worse as the battery dies out.
Perhaps when it's become a consistent (and more annoying than mysterious) problem, I'll "do the surgery" - open 'er up, do the battery replacement (which will likely involve installing a holder?), and maybe do some under-panel-button DeOxit'ing. That'll be a fun day!!!
Thanks again Phil - mystery solved!

PS - RE: the "scrambled" track...
It has run perfectly fine since. BUT: I'm going to do a complete/full in-the-DP format of the card, then restore from backup, just in case the files are getting scrambled. If the SD card is bad, it'll get retired to non-essential use.

I also saw a y'tube from one of the guys who does lots of DP videos about the DP's flaws, and he mentioned that a project that has too many of those little "z" bits making up it's tracks can start flocking up...his solution was to export the track/s, format the card, and import the track/s. Not sure if that would be any different.
I tend to do a LOT of punch-in/out, and other editing, so I'm betting a 4-minute track would have about 400 "Z" segments?!?
And - he is insanely annoying to watch (all the hand gesturing!!!). I'd watch your vids any day of the week.

 

[Mark Richards]

...too many of those little "z" bits making up it's tracks can start flocking up...his solution was to export the track/s, format the card, and import the track/s. Not sure if that would be any different.

Here's the details, found in the "Equipment Related Tips" sticky thread:
https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/dp24-32-equipment-related-tips.5817/page-2#post-44417

 

[shredd]

YES - that's exactly the issue, @Mark Richards - and apologies for my forum-search not turning that up (despite my contention that practically everything about a DP has been experienced and posted about - usually in the 'stickies'!).
For what it's worth: I DO use [Delete Unused] routinely, to clean out the garbage from my many re-takes/edits/etc...and try to clean out VTracks that suck like an airplane toilet and will never be used...
Am reviewing that post thoroughly right now! Thanks -

 

[shredd]

Here's the details, found in the "Equipment Related Tips" sticky thread:
https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/dp24-32-equipment-related-tips.5817/page-2#post-44417

Further to this process:
I took some time this morning to try this with a couple of projects I have on my DP that (despite my making regular use of the [DeleteUnused] function) are just LOADED with an excessive number of ZZ*.WAV files.
As I've mentioned, I'm an amateur and I do a LOT of edits, punch-in/outs, VTracks, etc. I have one project with 11 tracks whose song folder contains over 60 "zz" files!!!

Here's some observations:

• YES: this does exactly what it's intended to: the abovementioned project's song folder on the SD card went from dozens & dozens of "zz" files (which comprise the 11 tracks) in the original to 11 "zz's" in the new song folder.
• BUT: note that when you export a track from a project into AudioDepot, it is given a generic name - partial name of the project as you'd titled it, then a sequential number, starting at 1. IT DOES NOT RETAIN THE TRACK NUMBER FROM THE PROJECT WHEN EXPORTED. This means you have to be VERY careful when importing into a new project to put things into the right places, or your track-sheet is worthless and you have to figure out where everything is.
• ALSO NOTE: stereo tracks export as individual tracks (for example, if you export stereo track 9/10, it shows up in audio depot as two separate MONO tracks, and you have to remember which number they were given when exporting, then import separately to the stereo track).
• I also had a couple of instances where a track that had been recorded for a short segment (say from 00:00:20 to 00:01:10) showed up as the length of the ENTIRE recording (00:03:42, in this case) - even though there was actually only about 40 seconds of recording on that track.

 

[Mark Richards]

...when you export a track from a project into AudioDepot...IT DOES NOT RETAIN THE TRACK NUMBER FROM THE PROJECT WHEN EXPORTED...

...stereo tracks export as individual [mono] tracks...you have to remember which number they were given when exporting, then import separately to the stereo track).

There's an Equipment Related Tips sticky post for seeing the retained track numbers. That's why the two Audio Depot related posts are placed together in the sticky's index.

...a track that had been recorded for a short segment...showed up as the length of the ENTIRE recording...even though there was actually only about 40 seconds of recording on that track.

That's the only way the system can maintain proper recorded location in the song. The blank sections can always be edited out.

 

[shredd]

There's an Equipment Related Tips sticky post for seeing the retained track numbers. That's why the two Audio Depot related posts are placed together in the sticky's index

Yup...juuuust spotted that post (missed that one too!!!)

That's the only way the system can maintain proper recorded location in the song. The blank sections can always be edited out.

And I figured that one out, as I experimented with the process.

All figured out now.
I TOLDJA I was stewpyd!!!

Now could one of youse guyz stop over and help me figure out which way the pointy end of the guitar goes?!?

EDIT:
OK @Mark Richards - in order to continue my ignorant line of questioning (though I think I know the answer here...):

Regarding the export tracks from old song->import them into new song operation, to consolidate all the "zz" fragments:
Am I correct in assuming that when you export the tracks from a song (for import into the new one) - any Virtual Tracks (other than the "active" one) are NOT exported?!?

 

[Mark Richards]

any Virtual Tracks (other than the "active" one) are NOT exported?!?

Yes. First bullet point in the "Caveats" section of the tip referenced in post #10. Each non-active VT must be made active and exported separately if you want to consolidate/import them too.

 

[shredd]

Yes. First bullet point in the "Caveats" section of the tip referenced in post #10

Yeesh. Missed THAT too...

Each non-active VT must be made active and exported separately if you want to consolidate/import them too.

I can't believe I actually figured that out myself. Clearly there's a new World Order taking place!!!

Thanks @Mark Richards !