Recording externally and mixing with the DP-006

[Bambi]

Hello, I write to you in search for help with an issue I have regarding recording and mixing. I'd like to record several instrument tracks one by one (silent acoustic drums, keyboards, etc) and mix them later to build a song. The thing is that I'd need to record them with the best signal to noise ratio possible, as my sources are really soft. So I've thought of recording the instruments with my DR-100 MK3 and buying the DP-006 only for synchronizing and mixing the tracks. But I don't know how accurate and difficult will be the synchronization. Another option I've weighted is buying the DR-40X and record the instruments on it, as it has the overdubbing option, which would allow me to record each track while listening to the previous instruments recorded. That way the tracks would be synchronized before transfering them to the DP-006. But the problem is that the DR-40X has a worse signal to noise ratio than the DR-100 MK3. So I'd like to ask you these 3 questions:

1) What's the exact file dividing precision on the DP-006? Fractions of seconds? What fraction exactly?

2) As the DP-006 only admits external files in 16 bits, I would have to record with that bit depth and get a dynamic range of only 96 dB, so I don't know if my DR-100's signal to noise ratio (109 dB) would be useless and if maybe with the DR-40X's it would be enough after all (94 dB)

3) Do you find any other option for what I need than using the previous ways I've explained? (A different gear suggestion or any advice on my ideas). I don't want to use computer but for transfering files. I've weighted on buying the DP-008EX to record and mix, which has XLR inputs that I need, but the signal to noise ratio is too bad, again

Thank you in advance

 

[dctdct]

1) Opposite to the bigger Portastudios (DP-24,32... and older) the small Pocketstudios don't have audio or wave visual cueing function to position exactly to the frame (1/30s) on a track for IN/OUT marks. With my DP-008EX I have to try matching the correct moment with several trial and error runs. Be it for moving sections around, syncing imported parts or whatever you want to do. It works, but it is painstaking.
If I have a lot to realign I export the tracks to be modified and use the official Tascam Hi-Res Editor tool. https://tascam.com/us/product/hi-res_editor/download
Of course you can use any other computer program which supports WAV file manipulation.

2) I don't care about SNR numbers, because I have rather loud sources and to be honest, coming decades ago from cassette multi tracker, the "low" SNR values today are still stellar compared to the noise I had on the cassette decks.
Yes, for import to Pocketstudio you have to keep or convert to 44.1Hz/16bit. But this is all done in the digital domain which shouldn't add any noise to signal. But of course, other digital artifacts might occour by converting.

3) With the equipment you listed (and still avoiding a DAW) I see no other ways to get all you recorded into the DP-006.
I would use the XLR inputs only for mics. With my instruments I go straight into an analog premixer (reason: levelling instruments for live play and avoiding a patchbay for the recorder).

Curious which will be the best solution for your requirements.

 

[Bambi]

Hello dctdct, thank you very much for your answer. The info about the lack of visual references when dividing files, and the frame precision attainable with the recorder, are both very helpful. Besides being a complicated process, do you get good syncing results when you work with the DP-008EX alone (without using a computer)?

In addition to recording the instruments externally, I've decided to try the Fethead Phantom condenser mic preamp to get an extra level of clean gain, that I think will be hepful
https://www.tritonaudio.com/fethead-phantom

I'm inclined to using the DR-40X for recording rather than my DR-100 MK3, as it would simplify the synchronizing process (the tracks would be already synced inside the DR-40X). However, I have a doubt: will the synchronization I achieve with the DR-40X hold on when I transfer the files to the DP-006, or will it get slightly out of sync with the transfer?

Regarding the keyboards, I was thinking of recording them directly through the DR-40X line input, without using a previous mixer. With the DR-40X I have 2 mixing options; 1 is listening to the recorded guide track through the recorder phones' output, muting the keyboards in the mix and listening to them directly from the own instrument speakers. And the other option is to mute the keyboard speakers while preserving the line out signal, and listen to them through the recorder's output mixed together with the guide track

 

[dctdct]

Well, editing tracks with small CUT or OPEN commands helps to get the track in sync.
https://soundcloud.com/user-755431768-760710316/test0001wav/s-xGqygw0J5C5

The excerpt in this stereo audio file here was recorded separately L + R using a sequencer. I recorded first track L, then I punched in manually on track R with 1/4 beat overlap. I deleted in the beginning of track R some frame to match the beat on track L as good as possible.
If you listen closely at the beginning of the beat, you might still notice a slightly time advantage for track R.

Looking at a wave editor shows evidence: around 1/100s difference. This is far below the editor resolution of my DP-008EX (1/30s) for tracks editing. But maybe I'm biased because I zoomed in visually: Now I'm no more sure that you hear the deviation if you don't know it.

What is NOT a problem is keeping sync of longer tracks together: Once they are in sync as WAV tracks, they keep it tight also over many minutes.

 

[Bambi]

Hello dctdct, thank you very much for your link. I can't notice the 1/100s deviation at all, even if I consciously look for it. To me it sounds perfect. I don't know what is the average human sensitivity to detect syncing differences, but mine must be very far from 1/100s. So the picture is very helpful to illustrate it visually. I think that the 1/30s editing precision of the DP-008EX will be more than enough for me, and I bet that for almost everybody.

Regarding your DP-008EX I'd like to ask you a question in case you know. Do you know what Equivalent Input Noise does it reach? I've seen that it has around 81 dB signal to noise ratio but haven't found the EIN anywhere. Besides, I don't know which of the 2 values (SNR and EIN) is more important to know any device's response to noise.

And lastly, I've read that the DP-008Ex has too noisy preamps to record quiet sources, but I'm a little bit confused with the "noisy preamps" concept. Does it mean that they will deliver an even lower signal to noise than the specified 81 dB? If not, it means that the specified SNR is the most objective reference to know the preamps actual response to noise, so why then do people talk about "noisy preamps" as if they were noisier than the specified value? They would just be as noisy or not noisy as the device indicates, wouldn't they?

 

[dctdct]

Cannot discuss on preamp noise, because I cannot measure nor do I hear it.
Reason: I come already hot with +4dBU instruments from the premixer into the DP; hence my input gains are always down to 15%.

 

[Bambi]

Hello dctdct, ok. Thank you very much for your messages. I still have to think which option will be best for me. I don't have it clear, but I'm getting closer to a conclusion as I learn new things