Remote Layer Poor Performance

[Peter Batah]

If I load / import a dozen audio tracks into Cubase I find that the remote layer is responsive. I do not detect any unusual behavior.

However, today I loaded / imported 56 audio tracks into Cubase and found that the remote layer to be extremely unresponsive at times. I will try to describe some of the things that I was experiencing:

There were times where there was major lag when.

Soloing one or more channels
Moving a pair of faders up or down
Moving encoder when panning a channel
Meter bridge timecode freezes.
Transport delay. Pressing stop, play, etc. does not immediately react.

There might be more. Nothing else comes to mind at the moment.
Note: No plugins used at all.

So, my "Question of the Day"

Is there anything that I can do to resolve the issues that I am having. Optimization, some setting that I have missed etc. I fail to believe that the remote layer almost becomes unusable past a certain number of tracks.

As always, your time and assistance / guidance will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Peter

 

[Arjan P]

Sounds like something is not right in your setup - I have never seen any lag in the responsiveness of the remote layer or other control functions from the DM. I assume you have the three Mackie controls in Cubase Remote Devices, assigned to USB Ports 7, 6 and 5?

 

[Peter Batah]

@Arjan P Studio Setup / Remote Devices

Mackie Control - Port 7
Mackie Control 2 - Port 6
Mackie Control 3 - Port 5

https://flic.kr/p/2kHbP8U

I may have to consider tweaking other settings at the DM end if any. Heck, I am even thinking of swapping out the USB cable. It got really bad at some points. Where I literally had to take my hands off the wheel metaphorically speaking

 

[Peter Batah]

Some video examples of what I am experiencing. Things to pay attention to.
Meters / Timecode / Transport / Selectors

https://flic.kr/p/2kHgTY4
https://flic.kr/p/2kHcL9A
https://flic.kr/p/2kHgVyZ

 

[Arjan P]

That looks bad! Maybe like some controllers are fighting each other before one wins..

I just made some screenshots from my DM, maybe they help.
https://pixeldrain.com/u/GViat64H
https://pixeldrain.com/u/w6Jpcm5A
https://pixeldrain.com/u/s91A4k7w

 

[Peter Batah]

@Arjan P Thanks for taking the time to provide me with those screenshots. The only difference that I see is on the MC SETUP page where you have both Edit Frames and Cueing Mode set to "ON" The rest is slightly different because you are using the 3200 and me the 4800

 

[Peter Batah]

It's March 06, 2021 - 10:40 and this is where I am at so far.

1) On the DM-4800 I have created a new project and set the Fs to 48khz
2)Studio setup / audio connections one stereo pair set to channels 31-32
3) In Cubase 11 Pro I create a new project and then import 56 trks of audio (Output to stereo)

Remote layer is so unresponsive that it is practically unusable (lower track count seems better)

What has me concerned is that I do the same in Pro Tools 12 and have no issues whatsoever. Transport / faders / encoders / pots all respond very well (smooth)

I should add that these 56 audio files that I am using are part of a multi track suite made available to the viewing public by Warren Huart of Produce Liek a Pro.

It is primarily a PT project. But, I really do not see how that would matter as the audio files are separate.

https://flic.kr/p/2kHrDo8
https://flic.kr/p/2kHvk4n
https://flic.kr/p/2kHm1Sm

You can also see that in CB the PC itself appears to be handling the project without even breaking a sweat.

Of course I am persistent and have been at it since yesterday. To say that this is driving me nuts would be an understatement

 

[Peter Batah]

Hello @Peter Batah If I may add my two cents. Is it possible that the audio files that you are importing have varying sample rates?

 

[J L Bowie]

Peter, check to see if you have the DM USB plugged into a USB 3 port on that fancy new pc. If so plug it into a regular USB 2 port (There are two that I saw in the photos you've provided) These are the ones without the SS symbols. The DM's port is USB 1, and even though USB 3 is technically backwards compatible, it very often does not play nice with older tech. It can also be problematic for eLicensors such as those utilized by Cubase and Nuendo.
Also, Cubase does not generate MTC, it reads it, but does not originate it, so your setting in that regard could be part of the problem. And make sure the DM has its own directly connected USB port, no hubs.
Just some thoughts...
Jack

 

[Peter Batah]

@J L Bowie Good morning. Thank you for the USB suggestion. That was one of the first things that I looked into. The DM's USB cable has always been plugged into the USB 2 port. In fact, so is the e-Licenser dongle.

RE: MTC Working properly now. It was an oversight on my part. I had the incorrect settings in the Automation section that I had completely overlooked. Switched the setting from TC IN -> MTC(USB)

I believe that I may have narrowed down the erratic behavior when working in the remote layer. I am almost sure that the audio files that I imported into the new project were of varying sample rates. If I import another set of audio files (same number approx 56) I have no issues whatsoever

I would gladly make the multi-tracks that I was using available to anyone who would be willing to load them into a new project where the remote layer issue that I was having might be replicated.

 

[Arjan P]

Interesting and also strange, that audio files of different SR can cause these kinds of issues. You would expect issues maybe in the DAW, since it possibly will convert the sample rate on the fly, but I don't see a connection with remote control..

Even more, AFAIK Cubase, I thought it will always convert the files to the SR that the project is in - and keep a SR converted copy in the Audio directory of the project. But you should know about it, since it should have asked you what to do?

 

[Peter Batah]

@Arjan P I remember having imported the very same audio files into Logic X a while back and was asked if I wanted to convert the files to the appropriate sample rate or not. I do not recall but I may have seen something in Cubase along the lines that the few offending audio files might play at a slower speed. Honestly, I do not remember the exact message at the moment.

As I may have mentioned in an earlier reply (or not) I imported another 60+ audio tracks into a new project and did not experience the same. I should have mentioned something at the very start which just came to me now. The multi tracks in question were originally used in a PT session. But, reside in a separate folder as audio files. So, I really don't see how that could make a difference. Of course, I could be wrong.

If ever you have some time to kill and are curious to try this out for yourself the audio files can be found here:

https://mega.nz/folder/5xp0mIBB#RquzqcS61A6fefTn65iueQ

At least it would confirm that the issue is file related and not a problem at my end. Thank you

 

[Arjan P]

@Peter Batah I'll keep it in mind, but I don't think I'll have time for that check in the following days. BTW, I don't use the remote layer that much anyway. I'll let you know if I do find the time.

 

[cmaffia]

Peter you’re experiencing the same lag I have since Cubase 10. It’s what led me to freeze my setup at version 9. Anyone that knows me here knows how diligent and unrelentless I am in my troubleshooting and I cannot figure it out for the life of me. I worked for six months with steinberg and they couldn’t figure it out either. I do know this it’s some thing that changed with the midi implementation from Cubase nine Cubase 10.

 

[Peter Batah]

@cmaffia Thank you Charlie. And, thanks for confirming that I am NOT losing my mind. Obviously, this issue was not addressed in Cubase 11 either.

 

[cmaffia]

Sounds like something is not right in your setup - I have never seen any lag in the responsiveness of the remote layer or other control functions from the DM. I assume you have the three Mackie controls in Cubase Remote Devices, assigned to USB Ports 7, 6 and 5?

I’ll take a look at mine and compare. Thanks Arjan!

 

[-mjk-]

@cmaffia Thank you Charlie. And, thanks for confirming that I am NOT losing my mind. Obviously, this issue was not addressed in Cubase 11 either.

@Peter Batah just because Charlie confirmed that he had the same issue doesn't mean you're not losing your mind.

Seriously, between you, @cmaffia and @Arjan P a diligent study of the setup and implementation differences among you 3 just may yield the answer.

 

[J L Bowie]

Okay guys, I downloaded the files Peter provided the link for, all 56 audio files, and imported them into Cubase 10.5 Pro and Cubase 11 Pro, and am not experiencing any remote layer issues, lagging or otherwise. I am also running a Steinberg Houston simultaneously connected via the MIDI ports on the IF-FW/DMmkii, and all fader channels in Cubase react as they should without any issues. I initiated four test projects in each version, 2 of which I imported converting to project settings, and two straight in, no conversions, importing all instances into the project audio folder. This likely won't help you, other than to let you know that the latest iterations of Cubase are working fine with this project so you should keep looking.

By the way, Peter, just wondering if you have set your processor scheduling to Background Services. We don't have to tweak as much as in the olden days, but some things still matter. May or may not apply to your predicament, just thought I would mention it in case.

Jack

I just wanted to add that Avid has a readily available list of tweaks that can pretty much apply to all DAW systems. Most aren't simply Pro Tools relative. I've found them useful. Just a thought.

 

[Peter Batah]

@J L Bowie Hello Jack. First off let me start by thanking you for taking the time to assist me in troubleshooting the issue that I described in my original post. After reading your response I decided to create a new project and load those 56 tracks again.

I did absolutely nothing but hit "play". Switching banks / selecting channels, etc. results in the same lag behavior that I experienced the first go-around. In fact, it is so apparent that even the time code display will pause on the meter bridge (probably something else that I may have mentioned in an earlier post)

I did also mention in subsequent replies that I can load another set of tracks (60) and will not have any issues at all.

BTW: Processor scheduling set to Background services. I followed most of what I found here:

https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/dm-3200-4800-windows-10-compatibility-my-final-results.3811/

PC Optimization File for Windows 10. And, others reading that I have done!

 

[Dutchmountain]

Hi Peter, You mention that if you load another set of different tracks you won’t have any issues...
That makes me think that it indeed could be some sort of “corrupted” audio file in 1 of the 56 tracks

Try to load just a few (say 4) audiofiles into a new project and check. If that’s works ok just add some more files in small amounts and test again.
Cheers Hans