SD card usage/wear/fatigue?

[shredd]

I'm putting this in the PortaStudio forum, because that's what I have (OG DP-32). But it could also be in the Pocketstudio/Compact PortaStudio forum, since they ALSO relate...

This is about SD cards, and their durability/working lifespan in these units.

I searched all over the forum and the internet too...didn't get much solid info. So I'm asking you studio veterans:

HOW/WHY does the SD card/s you use in your units "wear out"? Is it from removing/inserting (the contacts wear out, or just the flexion to the card) OR is it an actual deterioration of the internal chips' capacity to read/write?

 

[BazzBass]

good post, and relevant to all sd recorders. It's important to know where the failure resides to prevent any disasters. I bought some microSD cards with the thought that if it's the contacts on the adapter that go first, then I could just swap the micro card into a new adapter. But if it's the actual card that goes, this won't help.
Regular backups to more than one SSD is my current methodology.

 

[shredd]

I have never used a MicroSD w/adapter...all my cards are the "full size" SD card.
And I actually make a point of NOT removing/inserting it - ever, if possible. Just use the USB link to outer (where I keep a backup copy of the card, updated regularly as I work on stuff)...

 

[Phil Tipping]

From what I've found, aside from the physical insert/remove limit, there is an electrical limit on the number of writes to a card (but no limit on the number of reads). From my understanding the limits are in the region of 10's of thousands or higher, but there are no definitive numbers as it's complicated by any 'wear-levelling' involved (spreading the writes across unused/redundant bits). The latter can be done by the system/computer which uses the card, but can also be done by the card itself if it has that capability.

 

[shredd]

Thanks @Phil Tipping - that's sort of what I was getting at: is it just the physical inserting/removing that creates wear/fatigue...or is there actual internal, memory-chip fatigue/performance reduction over time? It appears that there's BOTH!

SO: my next question might be: what sort of usage/mileage/lifespan is reasonable to expect from a quality SD card like SanDisk?

 

[Mark Richards]

Googled "SD card mean time before failure".
Took about .0000342 seconds.

Pertains to photography and micro cards, but just as applicable, IMO. I couldn't be bothered looking at all the other hits since in 10 years I've never had a TASCAM tested/approved SanDisk card failure.

 

[shredd]

Googled "SD card mean time before failure"

Hey @Mark Richards - THANKS for the link. I coulda found this myself, if I'd googled the right search terms (I toldja I was stewpyd!!!).

But - this is pretty much the info I was looking for. And it's VERY reassuring to have Tascam's blessing on my SanDisk cards...perhaps if I treat 'em gentle, the heavy studio use won't burn 'em up!

And - of course - the oft-repeated theme is: BACK UP YOUR WORK! Meaning - your SD card MIGHT never fail - but if it does, you're gonna wish you'd backed it up. So I do. ALWAYS.

Thanks again -
=======================================
EDIT - despite their considerable expense, I'm also considering the idea of buying a couple/few more of these super-fast SD's to use - either as replacement if mine goes bad, or even just to rotate them to lighten the 'workload' on each. Not to mention, there's often talk that standard-size SD cards in 32GB are sort of 'on the way out'...
Anybody got an opinion on THAT?

 

[-mjk-]

If you are serious about keeping your DP-32 in service for as long as possible, you should consider buying all the approved 32 GB cards you find.

 

[BazzBass]

to save time and unnecessary farting around, I leave all my songs on the Tascam on the default name, ie Song_0001 etc. On my track sheets I have this next to the song's title so there is no mixup.

Let's say I insert a new SD card, will the next song be Song_0001 or will it continue from the last song on the old card?

 

[shredd]

If you are serious about keeping your DP-32 in service for as long as possible, you should consider buying all the approved 32 GB cards you find.

I have to agree with this - however much I wanna believe that one of these (has space for TONS of work, and should last for a long time)…I really think it’s good advice. These things will probably give out way before anything else on the unit (play/stop buttons, maybe??)
Gonna grab a few.
THNX @-mjk-

 

[shredd]

to save time and unnecessary farting around, I leave all my songs on the Tascam on the default name, ie Song_0001 etc. On my track sheets I have this next to the song's title so there is no mixup.

Speaking for myself…I make extensive & detailed use of the naming capabilities. Once familiar with it, it’s VERY fast n easy, and makes what’s what unmistakable…JMHO…
In fact: one of the features I desperately miss on my 2488neo is the ability to set as many marks as desired, and the ability to NAME them, and select them/instantly access them from a list summoned by a front-panel button. Golden.

 

[BazzBass]

I'm recording three different sets of music, one of which is with you, so without folders, it would just be a long list of songs unrelated by artist.
Can I create folders?

 

[shredd]

I'm recording three different sets of music, one of which is with you, so without folders, it would just be a long list of songs unrelated by artist.
Can I create folders?

Not that I'm aware of...on my 2488neo, which is HDD based, you could create different partitions, which you could use for different bands, categories of music, whatever.
BUT: the DP using SD cards, rather than an onboard HDD, is actually another version of the same thing: SD cards are so cheap, that you'd use different ones for different categories: one card for Band A, another for Band B, another for personal work/collab's, something like that.

And - again - I recommend using the naming utility, for clarity. It's quick to learn, and quite easy to use...even with the silly jog-wheel character definition (no keyboard), I can give a project a full-length name/description in about 60 seconds.

 

[-mjk-]

I have to agree with this - however much I wanna believe that one of these (has space for TONS of work, and should last for a long time)…I really think it’s good advice. These things will probably give out way before anything else on the unit (play/stop buttons, maybe??)
Gonna grab a few.
THNX @-mjk-

Most of the electrical components are fairly common so I wouldn't worry too much about replacing a stop button. But if there's no more media to record to, then what do you do? At one time I was investigating an SD card ribbon cable to USB thumb drive/SSD solution. I lost interest in it but it still might work. I bet @Tom Boyles could get that to work!

 

[shredd]

Most of the electrical components are fairly common so I wouldn't worry too much about replacing a stop button. But if there's no more media to record to, then what do you do? At one time I was investigating an SD card ribbon cable to USB thumb drive/SSD solution. I lost interest in it but it still might work. I bet @@Tom Boyles could get that to work!

VERY interesting!!

Much as I love my trusty 2488neo...I've really taken to my OG DP-32. So I hope that, thousands of recording/usage hours down the road, when electro-mechanical parts are wearing out, that they can still be found/replaced!

The SD -> SSD cable solution sound intriguing...espeically if it meant longer life/better reliability than even a Tascam-approved SanDisk SD would...but I think that given the long life expenctancy, combined with good backup habits, it isn't really necessary.

On the topic of the "super high-speed" cards that I'm sold on - and have paid a PILE of dough for - I think I'm going to have to begrudgingly admit that (as you suggested above) they are NOT necessarily worth the $:
I did some recording today with my super-duper SanDisk Extreme Pro UHS-II with 300Mb/sec speed...then put in some krapey generic 2GB I had sitting around, for comparison.
It definitely DOES have slower work-time/lag/etc for many DP operationsthan my nice expensive SanDisk's...
But - much as I hate admit it - the super-fast cards, while a 32GB costs about FOUR TIMES as much as a standard-grade SanDisk Extreme Pro...IS NOT four times faster!!!

So...I spent quite a stack on SD cards that I could've paid about 70% less for. Now I'm thinking I coulda used that money for mental health treatment, or perhaps a really killer nacho binge.

 

[BazzBass]

Not that I'm aware of...on my 2488neo, which is HDD based, you could create different partitions, which you could use for different bands, categories of music, whatever.
BUT: the DP using SD cards, rather than an onboard HDD, is actually another version of the same thing: SD cards are so cheap, that you'd use different ones for different categories: one card for Band A, another for Band B, another for personal work/collab's, something like that.

And - again - I recommend using the naming utility, for clarity. It's quick to learn, and quite easy to use...even with the silly jog-wheel character definition (no keyboard), I can give a project a full-length name/description in about 60 seconds.

we move from one song straight to a new one so it's faster to use the generic naming. My first session I named one song then we just recorded many songs on this one long recording. Is that what you mean by project? then cut and paste each song into a new slot?

 

[shredd]

My first session I named one song then we just recorded many songs on this one long recording. Is that what you mean by project? then cut and paste each song into a new slot?

Nope...for me, each song is a "project"...I keep each one separate (and named!) so I can select right from the "Song" menu on the DP.
But - I'm also not in a band, recording live...so I'm not recording those jams that go from one song to the next...in that case, making one long recording would be easier. Then I'd clone the entire recording, trim to the part I want, and repeat as needed for each actual song, so they could be worked on individually.

 

[BazzBass]

my way is quick and effective for my situation. Sometimes we record in the afternoon with one band and in the evening with the other. It's much easier to go with the default names. On the tracksheet, I have the song name and the corresponding default name.I also have a book with each session listed, what song is which, the track assignments etc.
One of my guitarers is very busy as manager for our biggest internet provider for half the country so he wants to go bang bang bang goodnight. (that's what SHE said)
My way also keeps the songlist in chronological order, if I used song names, they would be jumbled up between bands in alphabetical order.

 

[shredd]

Yup - sounds like that's the right solution for you (busy bands and all). Especially the chronological thing. And no spending even a minute of precious time naming files. If I had any such pressures, I'd probably do the same thing.