Tascam MX2424 hard drive woes and weird output noise

[witzendoz]

IS it all working OK? and did you do more testing? Was the card you used the ACARD AEC-7732 or the ACARD AEC-7732A?

By the way I found a PDF copy I kept from the old forums about setting this up with lots of info from Strados

Cheers
Alan.

 

[carausius]

I've done a 10 minute song test on all channels & done songs & tests to 2 different SATA drives, (Western Digital & Maxton both 80GB / 7200 ) it all works fine. The SATA's are less noisy & not as hot as the SCSI drive installed in the machine. I'm going to transfer some Pro Tools songs over & I'll do some longer test songs & check the disk contents.

I'll have a look at the pdf file Thanks Alan.

 

[witzendoz]

Sorry to ask again, was it the AEC-7732 or the ACARD AEC-7732A you are using? Or are they the same thing?

Alan.

 

[carausius]

Hi Alan, I used the ACARD AEC-7732,

It appears to me at least that the U version is a 50pin narrow SCSi connector? The data transfer rate is also only 20MB/s.

 

[witzendoz]

OK I have jumped in, ordered 2 cards, I plan to set the cards up on removable bays so that I can use multiple sata drives. I hope that works, I will let you know when the cards arrive and how it went. The cards are coming to me from the US so it may be a few weeks before I get them.

Whenever I get the urge to try out a new system related to anything computer I wonder if I would get the same result sticking burning matches between my fingers and waiting for the pain LOL.

Alan.

 

[witzendoz]

OK The burning matches are getting hotter LOL, I have set the SCSI - SATA up, the MX can see the scsi device and the ID number, but the drive shows 0 gig and the MX says unknown volume if you try to use it. I have formatted on a PC to Fat32 and placed the mx folders on the drive before plugging into the MX. I feel I am very close to getting this to work. Anyone got any suggestions as to what I have done wrong?

Alan.

 

[carausius]

Both my disks WD / Maxtor 80G worked when I used Acronis Disk Director to totally wipe all the previous content. I then added new volumes in Disk Director & then initialised the disks in the MX2424 .

When I previously did the FAT32 format in ADD the disks didn't mount properly, they did work for a week or so but then stopped mounting. ADD had also put another small partition 1-2MB or so, that I didn't notice at the time, I'm wondering if this was a problem for the MX2424?

I managed to save my work with my USB data dock to my Mac & then pasted the projects back & edited them in MX View after I again initialised the disks using the MX2424.

The OS in my machine is 3.12 & creates 2 sets of folders , TL Projects / TL Imports after you create a new project / song. I have my SCSi ID on 4 as the internal disk is numbered 0.

 

[witzendoz]

Thanks, I did not even think you could buy a 80G SATA drive? I am trying to get a 500G to work? I will try the Acronis Disk Director, anyone know if the free trial will do the job? I don't want to buy it if it does not work. I will buy it if it does work.

When you saved the work, do you mean as a TL project via ethernet? Or by copying the folders in.

I actually did try initialising the drive on the MX but it said it could not find volume?

I will give it a go again when I get a free day and I have plenty of coffee in LOL.

Cheers
Alan.

 

[carausius]

Hi Alan, I first tried to format fat32 in windows vista without success.

I don't think the ADD trial will format FAT32 as I tried that way so had to buy it but got a deal on Ebay for £10.

The way it seems to work is using ADD to first delete all contents on drive, then create new volume, making sure only one partition is made.

Then fat32 in ADD (which I have some problems with on the MX2424? ) OR initialise in the MX2424.

I bought the 80g drives refurbished with 3 months warranty, They go for around £6 each! The MX2424 screen says that's 155 hours plus of 24bit 44k recording More than enough for me.

I just copy the files in on my usb hard drive dock & import them with MX view.

I'll going to buy some more drives & work out exactly how to do this, I don't want to mess about with the two I have working so far!

 

[carausius]

I just copied my projects from my WD disk over to my other initialised Maxtor disk, when I installed the disk into the MX2424 the MX asked to confirm the audio import files.

The 4 songs all played fine, I then recorded a new test project on all 24 tracks for over an hour, closed the machine down & reloaded the new test project which works OK .

Alan, did you mention a recording & editing procedure you used for testing new disks? I'd like to run the hour long project file & see if everything works as it should.

 

[nilsd99]

Wow, this thread became a really interesting read during the last months. I last visited in summer...
I bought a MX2424 in 2014 to use it in home recording (wanted to make music without screen again, after more than a decade), but was quite upset by the noise level....
The S-ATA solution seems a good way to solve this! I hardly used the MX2424 on the last months as the noise is simply too loud for me doing music in the small room.
Will try mounting SATA the next weeks once money and time are sufficient
One question I had while reading though: Is it mandatory to make a spare power supply for the next drive?
Thank you!

 

[witzendoz]

but was quite upset by the noise level....

Are you talking about drive noise or the fan, I have fitted quiet fans which reduced noise. The drive noise depends on the model and speed of the drive, 15,000 rpm drives are noisy.

The S-ATA solution seems a good way to solve this! Will try mounting SATA the next weeks once money and time are sufficient
One question I had while reading though: Is it mandatory to make a spare power supply for the next drive?
Thank you!

Multiple SCSI drives can cause heat issues and power supply issues when mounted inside the MX, it is very simple to buy some bits and have the drives external. I have covered this subject a lot through this forum. However if you swapped them out to SATA drives heat and power consumption is reduced.

By the way I am still trying to get the SATA to work, I was slowed down by Christmas, I am waiting for the Acronis Disk Director software to turn up. I think this will fix it.

Alan.

 

[nilsd99]

hi Alan,
First I thought it would be the fan, so I changed the fan to a quieter one, but soon figured that the hard drives are the key factor to the noise.

I got a unit with two extra SCSI drives (> 30 gig each) in caddies which both are operating at surprisingly high volume...

About the power consumption issue: so if I understand it correctly, I could easily install that one drive (I don' t think I will use more than one drive to start with) in a caddy, where the extra SCSI drives are at the moment.

Thx, Nils

 

[witzendoz]

I can tell you from experience that you should have the drive mounted that you are working on and a second back up drive mounted that you back up too often. I could not count he amount of times we have recovered a project from the back up drive through the years and saved the day.

By mounting the drives into an external tower, you can 1, get a tower that is well constructed so that it reduces drive noise. 2, you can place the tower away from the MX, out of the way so that the noise is reduced. I would get the caddies out of the MX, you could of course mount the caddies in the tower so you can rack out the drives, my tower has rack out drive bays. Regarding the caddies, are the caddies the type with fans? And are these fans making a noise?

Alan.

 

[nilsd99]

Hi Alan,

My caddies are without extra fan, labelled Data Express DE 100i-CSW 160 LVD One of the drives is a Seagate Cheetah Ultra 320 ST336607LW, the other one Quantum Atlas V 3.5... (I felt free to copy the info, as there it was and maybe it is of value to someone)

I am not sure whether the tower would be the perfect solution for me... after all, the scsi-standard is quite old and it seems most of the drives have to be spinning at high speed?

However, I quickly browsed and found a private seller of 3 used Avid HDs (MediaDrive rS73/320 LVD, 73 GB each) that are branded "QuietDrive" and come in extra enclosures for reduced noise...
All three drives would be ~120 Euros including cables, which is tempting, as this is the price that the ACARD AEC-7732A would cost alone...

Do you happen to know the Avid Drives? And would you think this might be a clever alternative instead of upgrading to S-ATA?

Finally, one question that came up already some time ago is whether the 9GB internal HD of the MX2424 can be replaced with something more modern or even entirely removed. I suppose the OS is stored on it!?

 

[witzendoz]

I don't know the Avid drives, but they should work OK, are the connectors on the back 68pin? They will need to be actively terminated also. The price for used drives is a bit high compared to the fact that I buy 2nd hand scsi drives for about $20 each and put them in my tower. However they come with cases and cables.

Regarding the 9gig internal drive, it does not need to be installed, I have no drives at all in my machines, the operating system is stored on a flash chip on the motherboard. An MX will boot up with no drive at all connected, however you cannot arm the tracks without a drive mounted.

Alan.

 

[nilsd99]

Yes, these drives have 68 pin connectors... I also thought that the price is a little high, but it's not set in stone and negotiatiable...

Interesting that the internal HD drive is not needed, that offers another possibility to address the noise issue! I'll power up the unit without any drive installed, next. Given the fact that I chose a special "low noise"" fan when replacing, it should indeed make a difference...

Thanks! Nils.

 

[Darren]

I think if using external 68 pin drives (you shouldn't use internal drives anyway) then Alans way with the tower would be best, but I just use external 68 pin drives in separate enclosures joined with short ext cables.

Hi Alan,
However, I quickly browsed and found a private seller of 3 used Avid HDs (MediaDrive rS73/320 LVD, 73 GB each) that are branded "QuietDrive" and come in extra enclosures for reduced noise...
All three drives would be ~120 Euros including cables, which is tempting, as this is the price that the ACARD AEC-7732A would cost alone...
Do you happen to know the Avid Drives

I have 2 of those Avid drives, I assume they are also black if they are the same ones, they are quieter than other externals, although you can still hear them though, just.
Actually on most external cases the noisiest thing is the small fan, if you put a small silent fan in it makes a big difference.
That price is way too expensive though, from ebay I bought my 2 73gb Avid Quietdrives, external cables, active terminators, plus an atto express 68 pin pci card for $27, well, $40 inc postage.
Don't forget to use an ACTIVE 68 pin terminator on the last drive in the chain if using ext 68pin drives.
If he won't come down in price by at least 50% I would forget it, be patient and keep looking on ebay searching external hard drive 68 pin scsi.
If you are willing to spend what he is asking or a little more you may as well go with the sata alternative.

Interesting that the internal HD drive is not needed, that offers another possibility to address the noise issue! I'll power up the unit without any drive installed, next. Given the fact that I chose a special "low noise"" fan when replacing, it should indeed make a difference...

I suggest you remove the internal drive and leave it removed, use external drives only, your MX will thank you, cheers.

 

[nilsd99]

Darren, thanks for the reply!
Yeah, I guess that AVID has been kind of a "premium" article here in Europe, I've seen huge differences in prices when comparing to US sellers on ebay for AVID and Digidesign products...
However, if buying from overseas, shipping and taxes double the prices for us again... I'll negotiate and keep an eye to the market.

 

[nilsd99]

By the way I am still trying to get the SATA to work, I was slowed down by Christmas, I am waiting for the Acronis Disk Director software to turn up. I think this will fix it.

BTW, as I asked myself before: Couldn't tools like this one format SATA into the delivered format as well, otherwise put: Does it have to be Acronis Disk Director?