Low Volume on .WAV file

[paddy_yo]

When I’m recording and during playback the volume in my headset of the mix is loud and all the slides are set appropriately. When I get the wav over to my computer, I can barely hear it with the volume at 100%. What am I doing wrong?

 

[-mjk-]

Start here:

https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/stereo-file-too-low.7580/#post-46224

https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/model-24-wav-files-too-quiet-on-pc.8177/#post-39614

The short answer is: Its about Mastering.

 

[Joseph Hanna]

I'd first be curious, by way of trouble shooting and process of elimination, what you mean by "when I get the wav. over to my computer". Are you recording it into a DAW or are you importing it from a flash card? Secondarily, the "volume" in your headset is primarily (although not exclusively) a result of the headphone feed from the Tascam. That is not at all an indication that your input and or output gain structure is correct. Two different beasts. Monitor your levels, not your headphone volume for adjusting unity gain and compare from there.

 

[paddy_yo]

Yes I am importing them into my DAW, Studio One Artist. When I play it from there, I can barely hear it.

I am reading in the above videos about normalizing the audio file.

How do I normalize it so I don't have to re-record it?

 

[Troy]

P yo, this is my exact problem and I haven’t heard a solution yet. I was hoping I don’t have to “Master” the recording first before bringing it over to my computer. This seems like defeating the purpose of working with it in Studio One or another like program. I was hoping someone would lay out a procedure step by step to get the Tascam 24 live recording into my computer at the proper volume level. We are looking for a hero here.

 

[Troy]

I would also like to know what are good or recommended settings for the gains and faders when recording a live band on 8 tracks. I have mics on all the vocals, drums and guitar amps.

 

[paddy_yo]

Start here:

https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/stereo-file-too-low.7580/#post-46224

https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/model-24-wav-files-too-quiet-on-pc.8177/#post-39614

The short answer is: Its about Mastering.

I read these and it’s a debate with no answer.

 

[-mjk-]

First, I want everyone to know that I understand the frustration.

I read these and it’s a debate with no answer.

@paddy_yo if the answer you are looking for is "turn knob A to X and turn knob B to Y", then yes, there is no answer. The answer is dependent on so many factors, a big one of which is the program material itself.

If you import the file into your DAW, you can do anything you want to it. Put a limiter or a "maximizer" plugin and make the level whatever you need it to be.

Some of these questions are impossible to answer directly, such as:

I would also like to know what are good or recommended settings for the gains and faders when recording a live band on 8 tracks. I have mics on all the vocals, drums and guitar amps.

"The answer is - make the levels appropriate for recording on the machine." I'm sorry @Troy Bowditch but you are asking an impossible question . How would anyone know what your mic and input levels are, besides you? Use the mixer to adjust the levels where they need to be for a good recording - somewhere in the range of -20 to -16 DBFS with occasional peaks.

I was hoping someone would lay out a procedure step by step to get the Tascam 24 live recording into my computer at the proper volume level. We are looking for a hero here.

You want someone to be a "hero" and give you a step-by-step for getting a live recording "into" your computer at the "proper" volume level. What does that mean?

What is a proper volume level? Do you mean:

1. Loud enough to compete with commercial releases?
2. Proper volume to upload to a streaming service?
3. Proper recording level so you can overdub in a DAW (because you said "computer" I'm not sure what you want to do with the file).

You get the point.

The mixdown file is what you mixed. If the mix is good then you have to apply Mastering techniques to it in order to get the levels where you need them to be for the outcome you desire. This is how it's done - even back in the analog days. There's no getting around it. The DP machines have a Mastering module, and the Model series do not. The Model series was designed to be used with a DAW for editing/polishing/mastering, etc..

That being said, if you don't have Mastering tools (and I would not expect someone who doesn't do Mastering to have those tools) there are several of us on the forum who can help you with that.

Here is the Mastering Discussion thread in the Recording 101 forum:

https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/mastering-discussion.9065/

 

[Joseph Hanna]

I read these and it’s a debate with no answer.

Paddy yo and with respect. It is not debatable. The answers you seek only come with fully understanding unity gain, gain structuring and and exactly what information the Tascam metering system is giving you. We've yet to discuss actual metering levels in your scenario, only it's loud and or it's not loud. From there and in both threads concerning levels recently it's, for me, concerning that so many suggestions regarding normalizing and mastering files have been offered as being the answer. It's just not, at least with the thought of clean dynamic audio is concerned. That idea is so counter-intuitive to me as to make almost zero cents. Destroying dynamics for the sake of volume is a ragged band-aid at best. Until you get things organized as to gain staging you could always use Studio One Artist "clip gain" function which will indeed give you an overall higher gain structure (per track) without the cringe-worthy artifacts and dynamic altering of compression, normalizing and mastering plug-ins.

 

[paddy_yo]

@Joseph Hanna can you help me to fully understand unity gain, gain structuring and exactly what information the Tascam metering system is giving me? If you can point me what you are talking about, that would be of great help as I want my wav files to be louder than they are.

 

[-mjk-]

This probably should be taken to the Recording 101 forum as this is basic recording engineering practice and not equipment specific.

 

[Mark Richards]

@Joseph Hanna can you help me to fully understand unity gain, gain structuring and exactly what information the Tascam metering system is giving me.

It takes book study to "fully understand", and experience over time to hone, the knowledge and skills.

That's just the way it is. No shortcuts, no hand holding, will teach you what you need to learn.

If you can point me what you are talking about, that would be of great help as I want my wav files to be louder than they are.

There are literally hundreds of reliable resources available on vendor and gear manufacturer websites, and books available on Amazon, that inform and educate; all easily found through a few Google searches on terms like: "unity gain"; "gain staging", "recording levels", "home/project recording", etc.

Welcome to the journey.

 

[robin courtenay]

Just tried this on my 24.In Reaper i setup a tone generator to -12db,sent this to the 24 and the track meter shows -12 dead on the horizontal line(main output led meter showing +3 at unity) so i recorded this signal on the 24 and imported it back into Reaper on a new track and played it back and now it shows -14 db, so lost 2db. Why? Don't know if this is relevent to this thread but thought i,d try it.

 

[-mjk-]

@robin courtenay at least you garnered some style points for using Reaper.

 

[Mark Richards]

Just tried this on my 24.In Reaper i setup a tone generator to -12db,sent this to the 24 and the track meter shows -12 dead on the horizontal line(main output led meter showing +3 at unity) so i recorded this signal on the 24 and imported it back into Reaper on a new track and played it back and now it shows -14 db, so lost 2db. Why? Don't know if this is relevent to this thread but thought i,d try it.

There's no direct correlation between Zero dB on a VU meter (an analog electrical measurement) and Zero dBFS on a digital meter (a binary digital measurement). More here.

Not sure if all the Model 16 and 24 meters are VU, but a look at the Block Diagram will indicate if the meters are before or after the A/D and D/A conversion points.

 

[robin courtenay]

yes but the track i imported to reaper was track 23 from the 2T digital recorder

 

[Mark Richards]

sent this to the 24 and the track meter shows -12 dead on the horizontal line...the track i imported to reaper was track 23 from the 2T digital recorder

Edited
I don't want to flog this to death.
At unity gain for the Model 16/24, the only reasons for a signal level discrepancy are

• The meter measurement (dBu/VU analog vs dBFS digital), or
• There's a unity gain or gain staging discrepancy due to something that may be influencing the signal (Trim control, compressor, EQ, fader precision, centered pan knob, etc). If this is the case, something is amiss and requires correction.

At unity gain, at all gain stage points on the 16/24, what goes in should be what comes out.
BUT

...the track meter shows -12 dead on the horizontal line (main output led meter showing +3)

That means you do not have unity gain throughput on the mixer. Until you establish the unity gain throughput (that's Zero dBu/Zero VU input to output for the 16/24), you can't draw any conclusions about the level of what's being printed to the 2T SD card on tracks 23/24.

Unity gain starts with the signal source. The whole point of setting unity gain is to know what the actual signal level of the source is as it comes into the mixer so you can use the meters to make informed decisions (change source ouput level, change mic placement, etc.)

All mixer gain control points must be set to neutral (Zero dB in/out). Once the unity gain position is establish at all the mixer gain control points, then on an analog 16/24, a Zero dBu/Zero VU incoming signal will go out the Main Out L/R bus at Zero dBu/Zero VU. But if that signal is also sent to the SD card, the digital level will be significantly lower (about -20 dBFS if the analog signal is Zero dBu/Zero VU - see the image below).

See this post in the Model 12/16/24 Tips & Tricks sticky for a discussion of Model 16/24 metering.

Analog VU (dBu) vs Digital dBFS
(From the Model 24 Level Diagram)
Zero dBu/Zero VU analog translates to almost -20 dBFS on the digital SD card.
Click to Enlarge

This is why the signal taken from the SD card plays at a lower volume level on the computer. And that was the correct design choice given the intended purpose of these analog mixers: "Multitrack Live Recording Console".

See this post for additional information.

See this post for discussion of gain staging.

 

[Joseph Hanna]

Just tried this on my 24.In Reaper i setup a tone generator to -12db,sent this to the 24 and the track meter shows -12 dead on the horizontal line(main output led meter showing +3 at unity) so i recorded this signal on the 24 and imported it back into Reaper on a new track and played it back and now it shows -14 db, so lost 2db. Why? Don't know if this is relevent to this thread but thought i,d try it.

I dunno if it's relevant to the topic but it's an interesting question and one I'll definitely try to replicate today. I don't know if a 2db discrepancy would, in the end, bother me all that much, but I'd still wanna know what would be the cause. As Mark mentioned above the entire concept of unity is in's and out's should be.....well....unity.

 

[paddy_yo]

 

[Mark Richards]

Good find! That's the absolute basic theory for gain staging.

The purpose of gain staging is (1) to assure each component of the individual and overall signal chain doesn't overdrive the following component; and (2) to control average-to-peak ratio of the signal chain.

As you add channels, EQ, compression, FX, and different vocalists/instruments with differing percussive characteristics, loudness, and frequency ranges, it starts becoming a more complex balancing act because everything impacts getting and maintaining a good throughput level. There's a cumulative buildup: the further down the chain you go; the more channels you add; the more the individual and overall signal levels change.

Don't know what version of these units you have, so note that the video uses a Model 12, which is 100% digital. dBFS is the unit of measurement. When setting unity gain, and tweaking the gain staging, there's one-to-one correlation. When all gain points are properly set, -12dBFS in yields -12dBFS out.

The Models 16 and 24 are analog, and as I noted previously, their VU meters don't translate to the digital domain; but the same unity gain and gain staging principles apply.