HOW TO Use External Effects on Model 12

[Bambi]

Hello Mark, I'm thinking of getting the 882i. On the manual I recently downloaded from the BBE web it says that the device works at +4 dBu input level. Here, in the specific entrance for the 882i in their web, in the "Features" tab it also says +4 dBu balanced line:



The only reference I find to 0 dBu in the specs is on the frequency response on bypass mode, and the Maximum Process and Lo Contour levels. So I'm not sure which of the 2 values is the right one, +4 dBu or 0 dBu. However, as both are above the Model 12 Aux and Sub outputs nominal level, which is -2 dBu, I don't know if it's better to set the Aux and Sub faders at unity gain and then rise the returning signal level with the entry channel gain, or if I should send a stronger signal from the beginning to the Maximizer for it to work properly

 

[Mark Richards]

Ok, I see. Unity gain on the 882i is 0 dBu. "Bypass" receives the incoming signal and sends it out unaltered. So an incoming 0 dBu signal goes out as a 0 dBu signal. Likewise for a -10 dBu signal (or any incoming signal at any other level).

The BBE is "for use in +4 dBu balanced line applications" (OM, page 4, Product Description; and page 5, Things to Remember). The "Low Contour" and "Process" circuits operate between 0 dBu and +10 dBu, and so can increase the incoming signal by as much as +10 dBu (apparently per circuit, for a combined +20 dBu per channel - not sure, but likely so).

The LED lights indicate the level of the processed outgoing signal. So, it looks like if your incoming signal is -15 dBu, and you adjust the controls to +5 and +5, your outgoing processed signal would be -5 dBu.

To assure adequate headroom, that suggests balancing: a lower incoming signal into the BBE; the signal gain within the BBE; and on the Model 12 channel input, the signal to be recorded.

Just practice good gain stage management and you should be fine.

 

[Bambi]

Hello Mark, thank you very much for the clarification. Part of this information is also useful in case that I buy an external hardware limiter. I'll be careful of gain staging properly throughout the process with any of the two devices

 

[Eric Guicherit]

I don’t have a Model 12 but I use the BBE on a Zoom Livetrak which like the Model 12 doesn’t have a send return function.
So basically I mix my song with eq and internal effects on the Zoom with the stereo master outs connected to the BBE and from there to the speakers. So at any time I hear the effect of the BBE and can adjust it to taste. When all sounds well I reroute the signal from BBE output to an available stereo track of the Zoom (instead of the speakers) by means of a speaker controller (Mackie Big Knob). The volume knob of the controller is used to increase the input volume. To avoid feedback loop issues I put the to be recorded stereo track on mute (and to be on the safe side the track’s volume slider way down). It won’t effect the recording. I monitor the recording through my headphones by setting the track to solo. The recorded stereo track now is a master with BBE effect. So you can actually create two masters simultaneously; one directly from within the recorder and one coming from outside. It sounds complicated but it’s quite easy. I got used to rerouting the signal and muting the return stereo track that’s being recorded.
I’m sure there are other ways of doing this but it works fine for me.

 

[Bambi]

Hello Eric, thank you very much for your explanation. It's a very interesting workflow. I have a couple of doubts, though:

1) The destination track gets recorded even if its mute button is active, right? I think the Model 12 works that way, too

2) If you activate the mute button on that track, how is that you can listen it through your headphones? Pressing the "solo" button lets you hear the track even if it's set to "mute"? So if you don't press the "solo" button you won't hear it?

 

[Eric Guicherit]

The mute button blocks the signal from going to the master out. The track is still being recorded. In this way you avoid feedback.

You can hear the muted track if you put it on solo. The solo signal is diverted to the headphone output before going to the master out. At least, that's how it works on the Zoom if I remember well (I'm currently not at my Zoom recorder).

Btw, lately I use the BBE less than I used to because I learned how to get the mix right without it. One thing I don't like about the BBE is that it takes away quite a bit of the mid frequencies while boosting the lows and highs. But you can compensate these when listening through the speakers first before recording.

 

[-mjk-]

@Bambi, @Eric Guicherit is saying that he does the mix first, so it's finished except for running it through the processor. After making adjustments to get it how he likes, he then runs the stereo mix back into the recorder from the BBE and does a real time pass just to add the effect. There is no need to monitor the mix as that point as the mix is done. That final pass it just to add the polish of the BBE.

The exciter boosts the high and low end as Eric said. I find that you should only need around 1.5 on the bottom and around 2 on the top (these are numbers on the knobs). Otherwise, it scoops the midrange pretty drastically.

 

[Bambi]

Hello Eric and MJK. Eric, I think I now understand better how the "mute" and "solo" buttons work in this specific process. I find very helpful your experience using the Master outputs to connect external effects. Now I have an extra option from which to choose. However, if I try that option I'd follow Mark and MJK 's warning to watch for any possible feedback, and I'd make sure of lowering the destination track's fader like you do, just in case.

MJK, although Eric sends his mix to the recorder after processing it, can this monitoring method also be used for listening to the mix while processing it?

Regarding the mid frequencies defective response on the BBE, I've seen it's an oftenly noted behaviour. MJK, thank you for the suggested settings for it. I'll try them if I finally get the device. Eric, thank you very much for your guidance with the routings and monitoring steps

 

[-mjk-]

MJK, although Eric sends his mix to the recorder after processing it, can this monitoring method also be used for listening to the mix whileprocessing it?

If you are passing your mix through it and then going to the monitors, yes.

 

[Bambi]

Sorry, I meant if that method allows monitoring through headphones and while processing the mix, previous to recording it. I don't know if this monitoring method and sequence works only once you've pressed the REC button, or if it also works for monitoring the process previous to recording it

 

[Bambi]

Can you do it that way? (Monitoring through headphones, and while you process the mix, before recording it)

 

[Bambi]

Hello, I have a little question for @Eric Guicherit. As you use the BBE maximizer in mastering, I'd like to know if you use it before limiting or at the end of the process, just as a little final embellishment

 

[Eric Guicherit]

I use it at the end, on the master out. It's meant for tweeking the master. You don't need much of the BBE's low and high settings if you got the mix and master on the recorder right. It brings a bit more air into the final master. Be careful not to turn the knobs too high up so not to loose too much mid frequency range.

 

[-mjk-]

@Bambi my X32 has a BBE emulator. I use it on every mix but the amount is very little actually. At first (of course) I over used it, based on my experience with the Aphex Aural Exciter type B. I ran white noise through the main bus with the BBE inserted and found that it basically shelves the low and high ends of the audio spectrum. As @Eric Guicherit points out, since it raises the low end and high end, the net result is that the mids can sound "scooped." At one point I was going to do an article and video for my website on how I use exciters, but I never got around do doing it yet. Maybe I should go ahead and finish the article.

In the end you will probably be better off just applying Streaky's standard EQ curve to start with, when mastering.

 

[Bambi]

Hello Eric and MJK, thank you for your messages. If I finally get the device I'll follow your advice of applying the lows and highs in a very conservative way. MJK, I'll take a look at some Streaky video about EQ. Regarding your videos, it sounds interesting dedicating one to exciters. Do you already have any videos respecting audio processing, mixing, mastering, etc?

 

[-mjk-]

@Bambi I only have 3 videos on my studio channel. I don't make videos regularly. I have one about a remix of a famous song I did. I think this is about to change since I started consulting for a company in Taiwan and they want me for product intro and demo videos. Currently there isn't anything that would likely interest you

 

[Bambi]

Ok, MJK. Thank you anyway

 

[MetaMike]

Hello and thanks for the writeup.
I'm trying to figure out how to get proper stereo levels out of model 12 (and back in again). Currently I'm doubling the sub output with unbalanced cables into a patch bay respectively going to an Aeros Looper and an MPC One (both of them line level capable). But the return inputs are very low compared to what is sent out. What am I missing or what would be the best way to do this?

 

[BazzBass]

listen to some isolated bass tracks, for example. They sound too bright, too dirty, you hear fret buzz , distortion. BUT in the final mix that bass sounds pristine. Don't stress about some noise in isolation.

 

[Bambi]

Hello MetaMike, I'll try to give you an answer from the little I know. I don't have the MPC One nor the Aeros Looper, but I can think of several things you can check:

1) The Model 12 Subs have a maximum output of + 16 dBu; if you send a very high signal from the mixer (Sub fader close to the top), but you return a lower signal from the effects, for example +4 dBu, there's going to be a lot of difference. You can try to send a softer signal from the mixer or, instead, increase the output signal on the effects by turning its volume controls up. Looking at pictures of the MPC and the Looper I see that both have several volume controls: Master Volume, Rec Volume, Loop Volume, etc. They may even have some internal software options to adjust the output level, I don't know

2) Adjusting the Model 12 input gain: on the input channels coming back from the effects you can adjust the gain knob. The knob has a zero mark on its trajectory; that's the unity gain mark for when line level signals, instruments or effects are connected. If you set the knob to any point below that mark, it's going to subtract level from your incoming signal. So set it on zero or above

3) If the cable runs are too long, being unbalanced, that can subtract level from your signal

4) Return connections: I don't know if you return the MPC to 2 channels on the Model 12, and the Looper to another 2 channels, or if you try to return both devices together on the same 2 channels. If it's the last case, you should check that both the MPC and the Looper returning signals are level matched because, if not, you'll be returning to the Model 12 two signals that are unbalanced one with each other, so you'll hear one of the 2 devices lower than the other