HOW TO Use External Effects on Model 12

Hammarlund

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Model 12
Using External Effects On Model 12

THERE ARE NO DEDICATED EXTERNAL EFFECTS LOOPS ON THE MODEL 12.


OTHER THAN THE INSERT JACKS, ALL EFFECT RETURNS MUST COME INTO THE MODEL 12 ON AN OTHERWISE-EMPTY CHANNEL, WHETHER MONO OR STEREO.

There isn't much else to say on this front: Other than channel 1&2 inserts, don't waste your time looking for effects returns as they do not exist. Choose a send method (below) and return the effect to an empty channel, whether mono or stereo depending on your needs. Or use an insert jack.

USING THE INSERT JACKS (CH. 1 &2 ONLY) FOR EFFECTS:
Channels 1 & 2 have "insert" jacks. These require an "insert cable" a/k/a "Y cable". The cable has one 1/4" TRS end, which goes into the insert jack. The other end of the cable is a "Y" with two 1/4" TS ends, one for send and one for return. That single cable carries both the send and return signal (both are mono, unbalanced.)

Note: The signal from the insert jacks will go out of the insert cable on one side of the "Y," and return on the other side of the "Y". The return will substitute for the original "clean" signal; the clean signal will not be available for mixing/processing/recording.

You can also use an Insert jack as a send only; see below.

THE **FIVE SENDS, FROM BEST TO WORST**

AUX1 (selectable pre/after fader):
Mono channel with a single send on a per-channel basis. Individual controls per channel. See Manual, Page 46, for how you can select whether Aux1 will send pre-fader or after-fader. If you only need a single send and if you're OK with mono, this is by far the best bet. Trust me.

HALF-PLUGGED INSERT JACKS (pre-compressor, pre-fader; channels 1 & 2 only)

Mono sends, only available on ch. 1 and 2; no level adjustment. But they don't interfere w/ anything else, and they leave all your other ports open, so they get second place.
Plug a normal 1/4" TS instrument cable, into the Insert Jacks on Channels 1 or 2. Pull it out slowly ONE CLICK, which is about 1/4 inch out. (The end result is that it is NOT fully plugged in. This is not a typo.) That will provide a post-preamp, pre-compressor duplicate signal of whatever is coming in to that channel.

SUB BUS (after-fader)
: Sub bus is a stereo channel which is basically a duplicate of the MAIN bus, but not nearly as handy as AUX1.

SUB is stereo, which can theoretically be useful. But Sub bus is POST-FADER for individual channels, so harder to balance--though at least SUB also has its own master fader. You can send individual channels to SUB w/ the buttons near the faders. You can also send things like the internal effects return to the SUB bus, if you'd like. You can send about anything to SUB.

Note that if you send directly to the SUB bus and use multiple channels, your relative channel-to-channel volume is set by the channel fader. Therefore, unlike Aux 1 or Aux 2, you cannot normally play with the main signal without also affecting the send.

Mono/stereo kludge of Sub Bus: If you are just outputting mono, and don't care about stereo placement, you can create relative channel-to-channel levels using the PAN controls and a single SUB channel. You can similarly treat the Sub bus (which is stereo) as two independent channels, again w/ PAN control.

AUX2 (after-fader, direct send): This is a mono channel similar to Aux1 but much less useful due to two major issues: First, Aux2 is used for internal effects--plugging anything at all into the Aux2 jack will DISABLE internal effects. Second, Aux2 is after-fader and (unlike Aux1) the PFL/AFL is not selectable. If you really need an additional PFL send, you can kludge this by using solo (see below) and routing SOLO output to the AUX2 jack, though I believe you will then lose any per-channel level control.

SOLO bus (selectable pre / post fader): A stereo channel, similar to SUB but much less useful. There is no real reason to mess w/ the SOLO bus for sends, unless you're pretty desperate. It lacks any of its own per-channel volume controls. Also, there IS NOT any separate output for the SOLO bus, other than the headphone jacks (which go through the headphone amp.) At least it is PFL / AFL selectable, unlike SUB, but that's about all you can say for it.

You can send the SOLO bus output to AUX1 or AUX2 jacks, but why bother? You wouldn't be this far down the list unless those were used up already.
 
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The above post has been added to the community Tips and Tricks thread (hat tip to @Hammarlund for this excellent post). I edited the note on the insert section for clarity. I figured that if I was a bit confused, someone else would probably be too. For now, I'll leave this thread up because there may be some discussion (and I'll delete this explanation post later).
 
Hello Hammarlund and MJK, I'd like to ask you for advice regarding the use of external effects with my Model 12. I want to do it for mixing, not for tracking. My idea is to connect an external guitar pedal to the mixer through the AUX 1 send and bring the processed signal back to an empty channel. I have a couple of questions regarding this proceeding:

1) What cable should I use? The AUX 1 send is a balanced jack output. The pedal's manual doesn't specify its input balance, but I've heard they're usually unbalanced. So I don't know if I should use a TRS to TS cable, a TS to TS, or what. I've read that balanced to unbalanced connection can cause signal distortion depending on the gear and cables. Have you ever had any problem?

2) When I return the processed signal from the pedal to an empty channel, should I press the "INST" button on the mixer as if I was recording a standard guitar track?
 
@Bambi the guitar pedal will be unbalanced because it normally wants a guitar cable. It should be fine using a standard guitar cable from the Aux 1 send into the pedal. Just beware of the gain. A guitar signal is miniscule compared to the amplified send level.

As for the return into the console - that would depend upon what the guitar pedal does. If it's designed to go back into a guitar amp then you should use instrument level. Some pedals have output settings that allow them to be used with a console at Line level.
 
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Hello MJK, thank you very much for the info. I'll beware of the gain. Regarding the cable length, which would be the appropiate? As it is an unbalanced connection, I don't want to use too long cables, to avoid possible noise problems. But at the same time it would be nice to have enough length to tweak the pedal controls while seating beside the mixer. Would it be necessary to use short patch cables (30 cm/ 1 feet), or can I use for example 1 meter (3 feet) instrument cables without worrying about noise problems?
 
@Bambi try it and find out. I have no idea why you are so worried about noise problems. I use whatever I want and I never worry about noise. If I hear noise, then I deal with it. But the possibility of noise (or anything else) does not interfere with progress on a project. Ever.
 
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Hello MJK and Mark. MJK, there are many reasons for being cautious. It's just that, in addition to working with a trial and error method, I like to know some theory first too, and anticipate possible problems that can arise in the process.

Mark, thank you very much for the link
 
@Bambi I really do admire how you are trying to get a grasp on the theory behind everything. That is going to serve you well in the future. But here is the main problem with the modern budding recording engineer: too many YouTube videos. Some of those videos cast so much doubt that viewers are afraid to try thing because of some unspecified risk. Like in this case, the risk involved is that you might get a buzz on your audio. That causes no harm at all. Its just noise on the signal. In general, people tend to fear that somehow, for some unforeseeable reason, they will harm the equipment by plugging cables in. While there certainly are situations where you could harm the gear, when we are talking about signal cables, just do it and see what happens. Good engineering practice states that you always turn the levels down first and then slowly bring levels up and see where they need to be. You know I don't mean any disrespect, but in the time it's taken to do this volley of messages, you could have finished the song. You asked about lengths of cable instead of just trying them out (I have an entire collection of different kinds of cables and I pick one to start and go from there). Some of this really is seeing what happens as you go along. My all means keep asking all those questions you have. Along your journey you will become less reluctant to try things for yourself. Plus, you may discover things that even the manufacturers said wasn't possible! That very thing has happened with the Digital Portastudios.
 
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Hello MJK, thank you for your message. There are many reasons for me to ask so many questions. Many of them are to clarify what I want, and what gear would I need for it. I don't try many of the things because I don't even have the gear to do it, so I have to learn first the theory to guess what would serve me and how would I use it. I read the Model 12 manual thoroughly before buying it, to see if it was what I needed and to be prepared for it when it came. Regarding the cables, I haven't tried any beacuse I don't have any, just a couple of long instrument cables. I don't even have the effect pedal yet to which I'd like to connect them. Much of the gear I use I have to order it from abroad, and I have to make sure it's going to serve me or, at least, that I'm going to get some conclusion out of trying it. On one hand, I don't want to spend the money twice, so I try to make sure that what I'm buying is going to fit me or, at least, that I can return it back. Hundreds of times I've had to keep newly bought gear that I didn't like, because there was no option of returning it back. So I've learned to collect as much information I can before buying any piece of gear, with the 2 main goals of saving money and saving space, as I have a lot of old gear that I don't use anymore. I know it's laborious for the people in the Forum to read and answer my questions, and I really appreciate it. I actually ask only if I haven't been able to find the information by myself. But, just in case you may like to know, I'm clarifying several things gradually as I speak to Mark, Arjan, and you, and the rest of the Forum members, so I appreciate very much your willing to help
 
It's not laborious, @Bambi, lol. Like I said, I admire your determination to learn. Plus, I can relate to the having to order gear from abroad as I also face that being in Taiwan. What guitar pedal are you considering?
 
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Hello MJK, thank you for your understanding. I'm thinking of some kind of distorsion pedal to add that effect to my drum tracks, so I can have some compression and light saturation at the same time. I was also considering a fuzz pedal for my mini organ, to use it during mixing rather than tracking. Another option I'm weighing, on a different order, is a limiter for my final mix, but not as a pedal but as a standard hardware device. I guess I'd connect it through the Sub outputs in my Model 12 so I could apply it to a stereo track. I'm not sure yet of what gear or combination of gear I'll need, so I'm trying to experiment as much as I can with Audacity to get the results I want, so I can later replicate that results as close as I can with external gear
 
@Bambi, I recently acquired a Zoom G3X and it seems pretty good for the money. It's discontinued and you can find them used pretty cheap. They can do up to 6 FX at a time. It's mono input, stereo output device so you can theoretically use it during a mix.

A standalone hardware limiter that is suitable for mixing is going to be pricey.
 
Hello MJK, thank you very much for the suggestion. I've checked the G3X and it looks great. It has a lot of everything :) But maybe it's too much for what I need. Regarding the limiter, you're right in that it will be very expensive. Besides, I'll have to learn how to use it. So I still have to search a little bit more for an option that suits me economically and in the easeness of use
 
Hello MJK, Mark and Hammarlund, I'm back :p I hope you're doing well. I write to ask you another doubt regarding the connection of external hardware to the Model 12. One of the devices I'm considering is the BBE Sonic Maximizer, but I have a couple of questions regarding the connectivity and the input and output levels of the BBE and the Model 12. The Maximizer has a nominal input level of +4dBu; the Model 12 Aux and Sub outputs have a nominal level of -2 dBu. So my questions are:

1) Would a -2 dBu output work well with a +4 dBu input? The Maximizer doesn't have any dedicated gain control

2) There's another option that Hammarlund didn't include in his original post, but I don't know if because it's inviable or why. It is connecting the external hardware to the Main output of the Model 12. Does this make sense? It would be to take advantage of the +4 dBu level of the Main output. I'm mixing through headphones, so I don't have any monitor connected. My idea is to send the Main output to an empty stereo channel on the Model 12. I don't know if I'd need to have the Main send of that channel inactive for this option to work
 
@Bambi, you have correctly identified a big issue with a recording system that doesn't have a way to insert some effect in the mixdown chain. You can feed the BBE however you like to get what you want, but, how do you record the output? Even more importantly, how do you monitor the output of the device to be able to adjust it? Bringing that output back into the Model 12 is risking a terrible feedback loop. I'm not sure it can even be done, but if so, every time you use it you will run the risk of doing something wrong and creating a feedback loop that you will really wish you hadn't done. Personally, I would take the output and record it on some other device.
 
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1) Would a -2 dBu output work well with a +4 dBu input? The Maximizer doesn't have any dedicated gain control
Bambi, dBu is referenced to .775 volts (0 dBu = .775 volts). The pro audio (studio) standard is +4 dBu (1.228 volts), so your external gear can handle the -2 dBu (0.615 volt) Model 12 signal coming from the Aux and Sub output busses. The Aux or Sub faders control the outgoing signal voltage to your external gear, so pay attention to the fader setting to assure adequate gain staging.

2)...My idea is to send the Main output to an empty stereo channel on the Model 12. I don't know if I'd need to have the Main send of that channel inactive for this option to work
Engaging the MAIN button is the only way to send your mix to the SD card, yes? I agree with mj about not running the Model 12's Main outputs into your external gear and then returning the signal to a Model 12 channel input.
 
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@Bambi, @Eric Guicherit has one of those BBE processors. Perhaps he will give you some insights as to what it's like using it with a hardware recorder.
 
Hello Mark and MJK, Happy New Year!!!! I hope you had a great year ending last night. Thank you for your warning about using the Main output. MJK's suggestion of recording that output on another device is very useful. Mark's information about compatibility between signals is very helpful, too. I don't know yet which option I will use. Regarding gain staging, in case that I connect the BBE to the Aux or Sub outputs, what would be the right way to proceed? Setting the Aux or Sub faders to unity gain, despite sending a softer signal to the BBE, and then rising the gain on the entry channel of the Model 12? Or should I send a stronger signal to the BBE and then adjust the Model 12 gain accordingly?

MJK, thank you for the Eric's reference
 
The Maximizer has a nominal input level of +4dBu; the Model 12 Aux and Sub outputs have a nominal level of -2 dBu....
Setting the Aux or Sub faders to unity gain, despite sending a softer signal to the BBE, and then rising the gain on the entry channel of the Model 12? Or should I send a stronger signal to the BBE and then adjust the Model 12 gain accordingly?
If I'm looking at the correct units, the BBE Sonic Maximizer OM specification pages show the input is referenced to -10 dBu (0.245 volts). Only the 882i is referenced above that, at 0 dBu input level.
 
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