Model 24 - How to Create Stereo Master with levels/eq/fx

[Logrinn]

I can't seem to find any mention of this in the manual.

This is mentioned on page 40 in the Model 12 manual and on page 37 in the Model 24 manual:

NOTE

• The MAIN MIX L/R bus does not have a REC button, but it is always in recording standby. The signals of the MAIN MIX L/R bus will always be recorded if the • button is pressed.
• When the REC buttons of tracks that already have recordings is blinking, press them to make them unlit.

(• = is my take on the REC button symbol used in the manual)

 

[Dan On Drums]

Coming from a DAW world I'm not so sure I would figure this out. I was stuck for a moment until I found this post. I can't seem to find any mention of this in the manual.

Thanks!

I didn't think it's in the M24 manual but according to @Logrinn above it appears I missed it. I had to dial myself back to pre-DAW days to realize the logic of the equipment and recognize that there's no other way for it to work other than to process fx and eq live while the "tape is rolling." It works just like old VHS style tapes that would record 8 tracks at a time (and you'd have 2-4+ tapes rolling at once to get more tracks) and you're final mix always required you to play the mix live and record to stereo track while the mix is happening. It makes total sense logically, and can't actually work any other way, but it probably should be emphasized in the manuals as it wouldn't be intuitive to anyone who has only ever worked from a DAW.

 

[-mjk-]

Keep this in mind: These Model series units behave like a recording console with a tape machine. They are not a software simulation of a console and there is no way to render a mix because you cannot automate anything and tell the software to render the edits as a final mix. You have to record the mixdown in real time, just as you would with a multitrack recorder and a master 2 track recorder. Besides, mixing in real time is a lot more fun!

 

[psymatix]

Can you punch in & out of the MAIN MIX L/R?

 

[Jeff Price]

Okay, so I've been searching the universe for a month, looking for an answer to a very simple question: How to create the stereo mix. I finally find it here - but with one huge problem. There is no channel 23/24 on my model 24. My model 24 stops at channel 21/22. So if anyone could tell me where this mysterious channel 23/24 might be hidden, I would appreciate it immensely. Thank you.

 

[Dan On Drums]

Hi Jeff - Tracks 23/24 are virtual channels that you can find printed/recorded to your SD card as a stereo track.

Every time you press the record button on the unit it will write/overwrite on channels 23/24.

 

[Jeff Price]

I located the files, but unfortunately, the wave form of these files looks the same as the stereo mix file - which barely registers beyond 0 db. And as far as I have been able to tell, there is a mindboggling ineptitude regarding the process of mixing, whereas there is apparently no way to adjust or increase the output levels for the mix - unlike every other recorder I've used these past 45 years, and just about the the most incomprehensible oversight I have ever encountered. When recording the individual tracks, all my input levels were set correctly, and my faders are set pretty high as well, leaving myself some headroom for the mix. But if the stereo mix function does not allow me to control the output level...well, suffice it to say that I feel like I have purchased a very expensive paperweight that I will be promptly returning to Tascam.

 

[Jeff Price]

P.S. I bought this thing to replace a 2488neo - which was another kind of nightmare. I swore I would never buy another Tascam product, but let myself get talked into the Model 24. Just another absolute waste of time and money.

 

[Mark Richards]

Suggest you introduce yourself to the stickies pinned to the top of this forum and aquaint yourself with the ins and outs of your Model 24 and how to use it effectively.

It will save you a lot of frustration.

You might even begin to like it.

 

[Dan On Drums]

Hi Jeff - If you're on facebook, there's a group named "tascam model 12/16/24 users" and there's a guy in the group named "tascam sam" who I believe works for Tascam and can probably help guide you.

I've not had the problems you're experiencing so am probably not well suited to help troubleshoot. Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[Jeff Price]

stickies?

 

[Jeff Price]

Thank you, Dan - I'll have a look

 

[Arjan P]

stickies?

'Sticky' subjects on top of the sub forum, pinned to the top of the page with red pins.. (so they stay at the top)

 

[Jeff Price]

I still don't see sticky notes anywhere - but no matter, I'm sending the unit back and am done with Tascam

 

[Jeff Price]

I did find an answer to my question, however: There is no way to increase, adjust, or even monitor the output level when recording your stereo mix - which, to me, is an incomprehensible oversight, considering that it is one of the most basic and important functions of recording a master mix. As you can see in the photo below, my master mix, (and even the separate 23/24 wavs), have a db level barely above 0.0 (Yes, I have tried everything - twice, and in various combinations - to get these levels up) The only workaround is to transfer the master mix file to your computer and amplify it until the db level is where it needs to be - which defeats the whole purpose of a so-called stand-alone multitrack recorder.

 

[Logrinn]

I see that you're using Audacity.
The vertical scale is by default set to a linear scale with 1.0 being max and isn't set to show dB.
If you change that to Waveform dB in the Audio Track Dropdown Menu, the result should be more like below (the top track). This is a recording of a single track that I recorded to track 11/12 (I've got a Model 12, not a Model 24), by pressing the Rec button, ie a "mixdown".
This created these two tracks where I did some panning and fader movements. But as you can see the left track (the top one) has a waveform dB scale, whereas the right track (the bottom one) has the default linear scale.
So depending on how you set your scale in Audacity the result will be quite different.

 

[Jeff Price]

Thank you, Logrinn. I don't actually use Audacity for mastering or anything else other than trimming - I just used it to capture a screen shot of what I was seeing, as it was just easier and faster to load than Studio One. But speaking of Studio One, the wave form looks the same as in Audacity. That said, I am still disturbed that there is no way to control or even monitor the output levels when creating the master mix in the Model 24. Nevertheless, thank you for this info - I will look into it right away, and will also check Studio One to see if the default view of the wave form is the same as in Audacity. Thanks again!

 

[Jeff Price]

I thought I might have found a work-around to the low output levels on the stereo mix by bouncing the track to the sub, and boosting the input levels from there. The good news is that this worked in regards to getting the levels up. The bad news is, the sub did not record the effects for any of the tracks that were bounced. Any ideas?

 

[Aldo66]

On the Model 16, there is a switch- POST REC which sits above the main fader. If i press it in i can control volume levels on the main stereo mix down. Ive looked at photos of the Model 24 and cant see this switch anywhere. There is a SD MAIN MIX RETURN switch but no post rec switch. Maybe that has something to do with it

 

[Freebird]

The SD MAIN MIX RETURN works like this (from the manual):

"When this switch in ON (pushed in), playback of stereo files recorded on the SD card is output from the MAIN OUTPUT and AUX OUTPUT MON 1/2 jacks. Be aware that when this switch is ON (pushed in), the sound of the MAIN MIX L/R is not output."

In this case the 7 band graphic equalizer are still available to use/hear from MAIN OUTPUT OR MONITOR 1/2 OUTPUT by using in the "Graphic EQ Assign" button.