Using a Warm Audio PreAmp with DP32

[2807]

Hello,

I am new. I did a search and see a few discussions about this, but no clear resolution appeared for me.

I would like to use a Warm Audio Preamp, which appears to be a very high quality unit, and run my mic(s) thru it to get what it offers. However.. I will then come out of it and into the 1/4" input(s) of the DP32.

Can anyone tell me the proper setting/analysis for the input's gain setting on the DP32 so that I am able to fully maximize the value of the outboard preamp ?

Anyone have experience with a Warm Audi0 preamp. I am looking at the
WA273-EQ 2-channel Microphone Preamp & EQ

Thank you !

 

[thornev]

You want the GAIN on channels A-H to be set to the point just before the audio input causes the overload LED to turn on. If the audio levels are all over the place, you may need to do some compression to even out the peaks and valleys. I would add the compression AFTER the track is recorded.

 

[2807]

Hmmm. That is what I am concerned about. I am concerned that I will use this very nice outboard preamp, but then be at the mercy of the onboard preamp anyway. Sounds like you are saying that no matter what the signal from the outboard preamp, I would still max out the built in preamp. That sounds a lot like gain on top of gain, and concerns me when I am looking for the pure cleanest sound I can get. Am I missing something? Thank you !

 

[thornev]

You're going to to have to try it out and see if you can get the results you want.

 

[Mark Richards]

You're bringing in a line level signal, yes?

Then it's covered in the Equipment Tips sticky, in detail.

External gear is external gear.

You want Full CCW on the Trim Knob (line level).

The result you get depends primarily on the mic you're using, how you place it, and the loudness of your audio source.

Incoming signal level is controlled by the output level control of the external gear.

Watch your Track Meters. Keep the incoming signal at -12dBFS or less, and keep the track overload light from flashing. This is done by controlling the output at the pre-amp.

If you can't keep the overload light from flashing, you'll need to use the portastudio's Track Dynamic Compression to tame the signal.

 

[2807]

Woohooo ! I did see that, but I guess it didn't register as outboard gear in my head. Your "external gear is external gear" was helpful.

And, I had to google it, but CCW means... "All the way counterclockwise" ?

And, assuming I can then adjust the input level by the external gear, am I correct in assuming the screen of the DP32 will show the level on a meter?... and the clipping light and so forth next to the gain knob for the DP's input will likely not be in play?

Seems that I still need to monitor the input level somehow and clipping too. If I leave that knob at full CCW and drive the input with the external, how do you observe what you are doing? I guess the clipping light may still work, but what about the level?

Thank you for the help.

 

[Mark Richards]

Seems that I still need to monitor the input level somehow and clipping too.

Watch your Track Meters. Keep the incoming signal at -12dBFS or less, and keep the track overload light from flashing. This is done by controlling the output at the pre-amp.

If you can't keep the overload light from flashing, you'll need to use the portastudio's Track Dynamic Compression to tame the signal.

Watch the relevant Phil Tipping video tutorials for details.

 

[David Porter]

I use a Warm Audio TB12 almost exclusively.

Keep the input trim of the DP fully counterclockwise. Set the input of the preamp to taste. Then raise the output of the 273 until your averaging approx -12db on the meter.

Done.

 

[2807]

Mr Porter! Thank you. And Mr. Tipping and Mr. Richards, too, and the rest. I will try this and hopefully live happily ever after. Thanks again.

 

[Noto]

I record with 2 microphones into an Audient preamp and I send the signals via XLR cables to 2 mic inputs on the DP32sd.
With the input trim of the DP32 inputs all the way down, I can monitor the Audient's signal input on the DP32's overload lights as well as accurate input metering on the DP32's color screen. (you want to be in the green!)
The DP32 preamps, though inexpensive are very clean and don't color the sound.
I've been getting great results recording acoustic instruments this way.

Why are you going into the DP32 from the Warm Audio preamp with 1/4" cables rather than XLR cables?
Just curious.

 

[Mark Richards]

1. Is the pre-amp out high impedance XLR balanced line level?

If so, you don't connect to the low impedance XLR mic input of the portastudio. The detailed explanation is in the Equipment Tips sticky thread.
​

2. For high impedance runs that are less than 4 meters, and where RFI is not a problem, unbalanced (TS) 1/4" phone plugs will do just fine. Also detailed in the Equipment Tips sticky thread. (And you bypass the portastudio mic pre-amp by using the line level input).

3. If the pre-amp XLR output jacks are low impedance, then connection to the portastudio XLR input is running the pre-amp through another mic pre-amp. Pointless, IMO, unless you have some specific production objective in mind.

 

[Noto]

Thank you for the information, Mark.

The manual on my Audient Mico only states that "electronically balanced outputs are available on 3 pin male XLR connectors". There's no impedance information on the outputs nor if they are high or low.
I assume they are low impedance, I've been using this setup for 6 years to record acoustic music for CD replication.

I started using the Audient preamp into the Tascam preamp, on the advice of my former Sweetwater guy because the Neo and DP32 don't have enough input gain for my AT 4081 Phantom-powered Ribbon Microphone that I am using to record classical guitar.

So, if I understand you correctly, I bypass the Tascam preamps by using the 1/4" jack on each of the 8 inputs?
So to bypass the Tascam preamps I should buy a XLR to 1/4 balanced cable for connecting the outboard preamp to the 1/4 inputs of the DP32.
I'm 15-18' away from the source when I record another instrumentalist, but with a balanced XLR to 1/4" cable distance shouldn't matter, right?.

Thanks to any of you who could advise me on this.

 

[Mark Richards]

...the input trim of the DP32 inputs all the way down...the Neo and DP32 don't have enough input gain for my AT 4081 Phantom-powered Ribbon Microphone

You're reducing the portastudio's mic circuit sensitivity -60dB by turning the Trim Knob full counterclockwise.

That says to me the outputs of your pre-amp are high impedance and probably operating at pro-studio level +4dBu. If so, you're feeding a lot of power into your portastudio's delicate mic circuit that it isn't designed to handle. The Trim Knob isn't a stepdown transformer.

See these posts in the Production Tips sticky thread: "Using The Trim Knob... Post 27, 67, 68"; and these posts in the "Equipment Related Tips" sticky: "Connecting Outboard Gear...Post 3"; "Impedance Matching...Post 4".

Edit
From a 2009 Sound-on-Sound review: (https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/audient-mico)
"The majority of the rear panel is taken up with five XLR connectors: two Combi XLRs for the mic/line inputs, two male XLRs for the balanced line-level outputs, and a further male XLR providing an AES3 digital output".

 

[Noto]

So, you are saying that my Audient's "two male XLRs for the balanced line-level outputs" are high impedance?

 

[-mjk-]

Why are you going into the DP32 from the Warm Audio preamp with 1/4" cables rather than XLR cables?
Just curious.

Because those are the Line level inputs.

You do realize that the equipment you stated above is a "Warm Audio preamp" right?

Why would anyone take a preamplified signal and jam it into a microphone preamp? Sounds like a YouTube thing to do.

 

[-mjk-]

So, if I understand you correctly, I bypass the Tascam preamps by using the 1/4" jack on each of the 8 inputs?
So to bypass the Tascam preamps I should buy a XLR to 1/4 balanced cable for connecting the outboard preamp to the 1/4 inputs of the DP32.
I'm 15-18' away from the source when I record another instrumentalist, but with a balanced XLR to 1/4" cable distance shouldn't matter, right?.

Thanks to any of you who could advise me on this.

Yes, yes, and yes. You could buy a small 8 channel snake, or make one yourself. Alternatively, you could use separate cables and make a cable run with spiral wrap to keep it neat.

The manual on that device sucks, btw. It doesn't even tell the user that the outputs are Line level. But it does list the rather hefty gain of 60dBU it can do. The thought of that going into the DP mic pre....

You could do Smoke On The Water without playing a single note.​

On forums all over the world, the issue of putting line level signals on 3 pin XLR connectors has been discussed to death. Manufacturers do it everywhere. My X32 console has XLR connectors for every channel. They accept anything from Mic to Line level because it was designed that way. The outputs are all XLR. There are 5 Aux channels with 1/4 TRS and one Aux channel has additional RCA connectors. Everyday, somewhere in the world, somebody plugs a high-level output of something to a preamplifier input of something else because they can use a microphone XLR cable between them.

 

[Noto]

Ah, now I understand what you both are saying, thank you Mark Richards and MJK for the detailed responses and the Equipment Tips sticky thread reminder.

 

[Arjan P]

The manual on that device sucks, btw. It doesn't even tell the user that the outputs are Line level.

I must have been reading another manual, cause it clearly states in the specs "XLR & TRS line level outputs" - and there's even a note on page 7 (Hookup Diagrams): "It is important to use a line level input on your recording device as opposed to a microphone or instrument level input." Looks like a nice preamp, BTW.
https://warmaudio.com/download/2684/

 

[Mark Richards]

Arjan, I think mj may have been referring to what Noto wrote in post #12 about his Audient Mico pre-amp:

The manual on my Audient Mico only states that "electronically balanced outputs are available on 3 pin male XLR connectors". There's no impedance information on the outputs nor if they are high or low. I assume they are low impedance

 

[-mjk-]

I was talking about the Audient Mico device.